Comments for Stinkin' Thinkin' http://stinkin-thinkin.com Muckraking the 12-Step Industry Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:43:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 Comment on Stinking Thinking by yahoo http://stinkin-thinkin.com/2009/04/27/stinking-thinking/#comment-108428 yahoo Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:43:56 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?p=626#comment-108428 So what happens when a priest or a pastor goes into AA, did they have a so-called spiritual malady? The 12 steps are a crock of shit. So what happens when a priest or a pastor goes into AA, did they have a so-called spiritual malady? The 12 steps are a crock of shit.

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by SoberPJ http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108384 SoberPJ Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:35:22 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108384 Ryan, great stuff. Very expressive. To cry is to cope ... and I certainly know you need to cope right now http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Crying-is-Coping-and-Why-You-Should-Cry-If-You-Can&id=601878 Ryan, great stuff. Very expressive. To cry is to cope … and I certainly know you need to cope right now

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Crying-is-Coping-and-Why-You-Should-Cry-If-You-Can&id=601878

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by Massive Attack http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108380 Massive Attack Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:31:10 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108380 Ryan, I am so sorry for your pain and loss. I think with your story & your sisters you can bring about change. In the mean time we are here, I'm here, your building your blog and I'll be in touch. Ryan,

I am so sorry for your pain and loss. I think with your story & your sisters you can bring about change. In the mean time we are here, I’m here, your building your blog and I’ll be in touch.

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by Amy http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108309 Amy Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:39:31 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108309 Hi Lake Lady, Nice to see you back. Thanks for the response. I was simply curious about the meeting you were attending and of course, you should not stop going until you feel the time is right. I understand completely how difficult it is and was only sharing my experience with you. As Sally said; we need to go through the process at our own pace. Also, fear was the main reason I kept going back. Just try not to give them the benefit of the doubt any more like; make sense out of what is said or finding the truth in it. I made that mistake for years. Spent a lot of time after meetings questioning myself because I didnt understand and thought the problem was with me. I did get a chuckle out of your description of the controlling women. For the most part, I went to womens meetings my "last" time in AA. Dont know if it had anything to do with it but most of them appeared to be financially well off. Talk about control freaks. They acted as if they paid rent for the same seat they occupied each week. If a confused newcomer took their seat, someone would inform the newbie; "you know, so & so usually sits there" and they would move. I know this is petty but on occasion I would arrive early to the meeting and take someones usual seat. Funny, they never had the nerve to ask me to move. Take care and hope to see you back. Hi Lake Lady,

Nice to see you back. Thanks for the response. I was simply curious about the meeting you were attending and of course, you should not stop going until you feel the time is right.
I understand completely how difficult it is and was only sharing my experience with you. As Sally said; we need to go through the process at our own pace.

Also, fear was the main reason I kept going back. Just try not to give them the benefit of the doubt any more like; make sense out of what is said or finding the truth in it. I made that mistake for years. Spent a lot of time after meetings questioning myself because I didnt understand and thought the problem was with me.

I did get a chuckle out of your description of the controlling women. For the most part, I went to womens meetings my “last” time in AA. Dont know if it had anything to do with it but most of them appeared to be financially well off. Talk about control freaks. They acted as if they paid rent for the same seat they occupied each week. If a confused newcomer took their seat, someone would inform the newbie; “you know, so & so usually sits there” and they would move. I know this is petty
but on occasion I would arrive early to the meeting and take someones usual seat. Funny, they never had the nerve to ask me to move. Take care and hope to see you back.

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by Sally http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108262 Sally Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:27:00 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108262 I was/am a Catholic. Although I think of myself now as having traditional Christian beliefs. It's more accurate in describing my own beliefs over the last 20 years or so. I too can’t understand how a devout Christian can be a part of stepping. Personally, I quietly disregarded them the steps as healing tool (take what you want and leave the rest). There was no way my HP was going to be the group. And being encouraged to change HP’s was an ultimate insult. The one time I raised me temper (even in this slight way), was when after I told my counselor that I didn’t believe that God interfered with my life (kept me sober). Her suggestion of course was that I switch to another higher power. That’s like believing in fairy tales. And with regards to spiritual identity, too personal and contemptuous for anyone else to interfere with. The result of this was of course her again trying to place me in denial. Sharing the Lord’s Prayer with a group that sneered a religion at the same time as employing it, became a practice that I refused to participate in. I was always able to fully respect the belief of others, but not while my own was being begrudged. Even as a confused Christian, the imposition of steppism nagged at me. Ryan, I think with your realization of no longer to live a lie and getting yourself back is the first battle. You are on your way. Keep up the good work :) I was/am a Catholic. Although I think of myself now as having traditional Christian beliefs. It’s more accurate in describing my own beliefs over the last 20 years or so.

I too can’t understand how a devout Christian can be a part of stepping. Personally, I quietly disregarded them the steps as healing tool (take what you want and leave the rest). There was no way my HP was going to be the group. And being encouraged to change HP’s was an ultimate insult. The one time I raised me temper (even in this slight way), was when after I told my counselor that I didn’t believe that God interfered with my life (kept me sober). Her suggestion of course was that I switch to another higher power. That’s like believing in fairy tales. And with regards to spiritual identity, too personal and contemptuous for anyone else to interfere with. The result of this was of course her again trying to place me in denial.

Sharing the Lord’s Prayer with a group that sneered a religion at the same time as employing it, became a practice that I refused to participate in. I was always able to fully respect the belief of others, but not while my own was being begrudged. Even as a confused Christian, the imposition of steppism nagged at me.

Ryan, I think with your realization of no longer to live a lie and getting yourself back is the first battle. You are on your way. Keep up the good work :)

]]> Comment on Neverending Thread by Sally http://stinkin-thinkin.com/neverending-thread/#comment-108236 Sally Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:00:25 +0000 http://stinkin-thinkin.com/#comment-108236 If your 'friend' from your 20's beleived this. Fine. Just don't direct it toward me, please please please! lol. If your ‘friend’ from your 20′s beleived this. Fine. Just don’t direct it toward me, please please please! lol.

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by Ryan http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108233 Ryan Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:58:38 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108233 I used to read the big book fervantly. I could quote it and the steppers really admired me for that. The story about the real alcoholic who saw the psychologist Carl Gustav Jung for a year and got piss drunk the day he came out. I used to quote that one in meetings- therapy is no good, a message steppers loved to here. Roland Hazard was his name. I didn't learn that until I went to a big book study...Maybe Jung was just a shitty therapist. ever think of that one? I know that it is very important for a person with problems drinking to recover as a part of the community and know that he or she is a good person and that it's OK to cry. Also it's of no use to give them a lifetime depracating label. I knew a guy at a meeting who used to introduce himself as "so-and so, powerless over alcohol." He seemed like he was in so much pain. A few months later he laid on the train tracks and was torn into pieces by a train. Suicide. What happened? He was doing everything the Steppers wanted. He wasn't all that popular, so not too many people gossiped about him in the mtgs afterwards. The ones who did though, I remember used the incident to explain just how powerful the disease is and how important it is to stay in AA. Of course, everyone nodded their heads in agreement. I've been feeling so guilty about leaving AA and think of how much the people were trying to help me. Especially at the treatment center where miracles happened and hugs were a daily occurence. If I was angry or sad though, God forbid, I needed to get off the pity pot and go to a mtg. I remember crying in a mtg once about how sorry I was to my family for using drugs and their money to buy them (getting messed off and running off). I mean I felt horrible. I made some bad choices. A man (a very respectable authority in AA) came up to me at the end and shook my hand then walked out. Eveyone thanked me for my share and we prayed and went our separate ways, all grateful to have been alive and sober in AA with such a deadly disease....How deceivingly helpful it all was. That behind all the love, there was this ideology that you were a terrible person and had no control over your behavior and would be that way for life. You were selfish and resentful, defiant and arrogant, childish and loved to procrastinate. A lot of people used to share about how they "took their will back" that particular day and so had to get to a mtg and make amends the next day. In the half-way house: We all made our beds in the morning, prayed on our knees, did our house chores, called our sponsors, checked-in w our counselors, did our step work and gratitude lists, ate dinner together, hit a mtg, and so on the same thing every day. 14 men and one phone. No cell phones or cars or tv before 4pm. Yet so many people who had been there and people outside of there were "picking up" again, or going back to jail or rehab, or getting kicked out of where they were living, or dieing. But nothing changed. "stay in the middle, keep your gratitude high, and don't think, don't drink, go to a mtg...and don't make any major desicions on your own because you can't trust your disease." I'm angry and fed-up yet still feel guilty and doomed sometimes for leaving. I cried so hard last night for me and my sister. We were in so much pain and felt so trapped and invalidated and bad. The Steppers would tell me how good I was doing and that "feelings aren't facts." Those big book quotes still roll around in my head and the counselor's admonishments too (between the hugs and pats on the back)...I was living a lie alright. I want me back. I used to read the big book fervantly. I could quote it and the steppers really admired me for that. The story about the real alcoholic who saw the psychologist Carl Gustav Jung for a year and got piss drunk the day he came out. I used to quote that one in meetings- therapy is no good, a message steppers loved to here. Roland Hazard was his name. I didn’t learn that until I went to a big book study…Maybe Jung was just a shitty therapist. ever think of that one? I know that it is very important for a person with problems drinking to recover as a part of the community and know that he or she is a good person and that it’s OK to cry. Also it’s of no use to give them a lifetime depracating label. I knew a guy at a meeting who used to introduce himself as “so-and so, powerless over alcohol.” He seemed like he was in so much pain. A few months later he laid on the train tracks and was torn into pieces by a train. Suicide. What happened? He was doing everything the Steppers wanted. He wasn’t all that popular, so not too many people gossiped about him in the mtgs afterwards. The ones who did though, I remember used the incident to explain just how powerful the disease is and how important it is to stay in AA. Of course, everyone nodded their heads in agreement. I’ve been feeling so guilty about leaving AA and think of how much the people were trying to help me. Especially at the treatment center where miracles happened and hugs were a daily occurence. If I was angry or sad though, God forbid, I needed to get off the pity pot and go to a mtg. I remember crying in a mtg once about how sorry I was to my family for using drugs and their money to buy them (getting messed off and running off). I mean I felt horrible. I made some bad choices. A man (a very respectable authority in AA) came up to me at the end and shook my hand then walked out. Eveyone thanked me for my share and we prayed and went our separate ways, all grateful to have been alive and sober in AA with such a deadly disease….How deceivingly helpful it all was. That behind all the love, there was this ideology that you were a terrible person and had no control over your behavior and would be that way for life. You were selfish and resentful, defiant and arrogant, childish and loved to procrastinate. A lot of people used to share about how they “took their will back” that particular day and so had to get to a mtg and make amends the next day. In the half-way house: We all made our beds in the morning, prayed on our knees, did our house chores, called our sponsors, checked-in w our counselors, did our step work and gratitude lists, ate dinner together, hit a mtg, and so on the same thing every day. 14 men and one phone. No cell phones or cars or tv before 4pm. Yet so many people who had been there and people outside of there were “picking up” again, or going back to jail or rehab, or getting kicked out of where they were living, or dieing. But nothing changed. “stay in the middle, keep your gratitude high, and don’t think, don’t drink, go to a mtg…and don’t make any major desicions on your own because you can’t trust your disease.” I’m angry and fed-up yet still feel guilty and doomed sometimes for leaving. I cried so hard last night for me and my sister. We were in so much pain and felt so trapped and invalidated and bad. The Steppers would tell me how good I was doing and that “feelings aren’t facts.” Those big book quotes still roll around in my head and the counselor’s admonishments too (between the hugs and pats on the back)…I was living a lie alright. I want me back.

]]> Comment on Neverending Thread by PersephoneInExile http://stinkin-thinkin.com/neverending-thread/#comment-108229 PersephoneInExile Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:47:15 +0000 http://stinkin-thinkin.com/#comment-108229 Sally, my story was similar (dammit, my a key just died completely, I'm having to tap on the sensor now....lol) but situational depression due to a death in the family. I feel lucky that some I know realize that. Honestly, all the stepper talk about knowing everything about me based on my "disease" reminded me almost entirely of this guy I knew when I was 20 who chalked everything ANYONE did on their astrological chart. "You would feel that way, you're such a (fill in sign here)". Really? I don't think so. And yes, I hated that notion that I was somehow being dishonest when I said I wanted to be away from drugs--but didn't want to work the steps. Really? Wrong again. Ego, though? Entirely agreed! Sally, my story was similar (dammit, my a key just died completely, I’m having to tap on the sensor now….lol) but situational depression due to a death in the family. I feel lucky that some I know realize that.

Honestly, all the stepper talk about knowing everything about me based on my “disease” reminded me almost entirely of this guy I knew when I was 20 who chalked everything ANYONE did on their astrological chart. “You would feel that way, you’re such a (fill in sign here)”. Really? I don’t think so. And yes, I hated that notion that I was somehow being dishonest when I said I wanted to be away from drugs–but didn’t want to work the steps. Really? Wrong again. Ego, though? Entirely agreed!

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by PersephoneInExile http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108213 PersephoneInExile Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:30:46 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108213 Lake Lady, I have never figured out this idea that having a large vocabulary is something to shame people over....that was always the sticking point with me, too. That's just one of the points I see (you guys brought up the bitchiness of the women?) in xA being the natural playground of those who want to attack others based on their own insecurities. And some of them attack ANYTHING. Oh, you're not overweight? "You must have an eating disorder. Are you addicted to exercise?" Anything. It's like getting sent to the Henpeck Mom Convention for eternity. The 4th step taught me one thing, that's for sure, it taught me that I am indeed a pretty private person. And no, no one I knew NOT in recovery thought this was anything I ever needed to be sharing. Certainly not with the people in NA, but not even with the AAers. Or treatment center people. Amy, that is always disconcerting to me. Christianity (and Islam, Judaism, though I know no Jews who are religious enough to take this part seriously) forbid any activities that bring followers to the level of a deity, in any way. This is obviously either ignored by plenty of Christians all the time outside of xA, but I always wondered about those who claim to be Christian churchgoers while allowing themselves to be part of a group that can serve as a deity. (I won't be part of any group that believes it can have magical powers, personally, but then I'm probably just weird.) Lake Lady, I have never figured out this idea that having a large vocabulary is something to shame people over….that was always the sticking point with me, too. That’s just one of the points I see (you guys brought up the bitchiness of the women?) in xA being the natural playground of those who want to attack others based on their own insecurities. And some of them attack ANYTHING. Oh, you’re not overweight? “You must have an eating disorder. Are you addicted to exercise?” Anything. It’s like getting sent to the Henpeck Mom Convention for eternity.

The 4th step taught me one thing, that’s for sure, it taught me that I am indeed a pretty private person. And no, no one I knew NOT in recovery thought this was anything I ever needed to be sharing. Certainly not with the people in NA, but not even with the AAers. Or treatment center people.

Amy, that is always disconcerting to me. Christianity (and Islam, Judaism, though I know no Jews who are religious enough to take this part seriously) forbid any activities that bring followers to the level of a deity, in any way. This is obviously either ignored by plenty of Christians all the time outside of xA, but I always wondered about those who claim to be Christian churchgoers while allowing themselves to be part of a group that can serve as a deity. (I won’t be part of any group that believes it can have magical powers, personally, but then I’m probably just weird.)

]]> Comment on Why I Left AA Stories by Sally http://stinkin-thinkin.com/why-i-left-aa-stinkin-thinkin-stories/#comment-108192 Sally Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:42:11 +0000 http://donewithaa.wordpress.com/?page_id=2955#comment-108192 Living a lie is not living. Living a lie is not living.

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