Stinkin' Thinkin'

Suicide pact eh? Pretty good defence for just about any murder I’d say.

Swami, interesting about your opinion this actually being a murder. I’m thinking you might be right Watson

Walmsley was a veteran user of heroin and likely had a high tolerance but she wasn’t an addict. Unless he is a total imbecil he know’s he’s going to get high, but it could/would probably kill her.

“Police say he has been an addict for 15 years and introduced his girlfriend to the drug.” and “Walmsley’s girlfriend had not been a drug addict”

I agree with c&e disclosure !!!!

Sally, very interesting point.

Notice at the end of the article is a list of helplines to call. Don’t call the Salvo Crisis Line for fuck sake, thats the Salvation Army you will get a stepper or an apologist for steppism for sure.
I wonder if Corrective Services will insist that Walmsley attends aa as a condition of his bail. They (essentially probation staff) can do that without a specific court order down here and they do. Maybe he will find another ‘girlfriend’ in aa while he awaits trial, then extradition to NSW to face fraud charges, and undergoes methadone treatment and psychiatric care and tries to overcome his selfharming/suicidal urges and processes his anger towards witnesses. Queue up alkie chicks in aa he is quite a catch.
Then when god has forgiven him and he has sued for being kept in custody without trial for so long and has learned to love himself he can sponsor others.
And fuck the orphaned kid.

Australia has a successful needle exchange program, I believe some places provide venues where addicts can go to shoot up and methadone treatment is widely available. Thats quite a bit of help. All the ‘girlfriend’ gets is a fucking a meetings where still in the grip of rampant alcohol abuse she is a sitting duck for a streetwise predator.
What I want to say is that aa does not change where ever you go, it is a dangerous place, its stop drinking program circa 1936 does not work and the same crazy shit keeps happening everywhere.
She was not an addict. She might never have met that crazy fuck if she hadn’t gone to aa and her child would still have its mother. Maybe she was told the same lies as me…’this really works. It is the only thing that works.’ So she went to aa.
When these lies eventually lead to a death like this it is not unreasonable to look at the full chain of events and ask some questions about liability. Does aa ever warn its recruits about the dangers within. Nope.
Tell me those of you who go to smart or some other recovery program, do you know of a single incident when someone at these programs ended up dead at the hands of another member?

Just accidentally deleted my post before sending..argg

I was trying to get it straight. He’s being let out now, 7 months after his initial arrest, to save him a few months in jail before his trial begins. Like it’s already been noted on ST, he had no business being in AA before. But is being released anyway now, so he can get the help he “needs” – It failed before and someone is died. This after he had known mental problems, anger issues, and drug dependance. Apparently, nothing has changed about his status with “problems”, but they are letting him OUT to get it.

He’s ordered no contact with the 18 witnesses in his case. But “had also allegedly expressed anger towards witnesses in the matter” at the time of his arrest.” The witnesses are most likely important to the case against him.

Btw, I think the victim’s name is O’Connor.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-04-14/man-charged-over-heroin-suicide-pact/2615902
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-11/suicide-pact-accused-granted-bail/3496926?section=act

@ swami
A little to close to home for me and you i guess. As far as I’m aware 12 step programs are not yet available in Australian jails there are other drug and alcohol programs mainly to cater for aboriginal inmates. Will investigate further.I am aware of a attempt by the ” endevour church” which was based in Byron, ( course in miracles) to introduce it into the prison systems. Not sure what happened to the group, wether they are still active or not.
And this time I’m not thanking god for the salvos!

Sorry endeavor academy.
It was the salvos that handed over the meetings list to my ex, hence my bitterness towards them. I remember looking at the list and thinking, surely people don’t do go twice and three times a day, to talk about something that messed up their lives, where did the make peace with the past and move on come into it?

Border Collie, you are right. Keep taking note of that as your going to meetings. Obviously it’s not your focus, but you really cannot let your guard down.

There is nothing definitive about “the right sponsor….called her sponsor…not been drinking….been praying….had a higher power…..listened to her sponsor……”. How that “would” have kept her alive is propaganda talk, deserving no respect and actually a slap.

The fact is, she would be alive if she didn’t meet him and/or he didn’t participate in her death. Or, if she didn’t do it to herself (if that is the case). She might be alive if there were specific rules about membership. Awareness spoken about at the meetings and imbedded in the minds of members during the readings and at every meeting – might have helped: “Tradition One: There is nothing more important than personal safety. Sobriety will mean nothing if you are dead. The AA fellowship cares, etc.”.

Add a Safety Position to the trusted servants. There are members in charge of making coffee, handing out tokens, chairing, a secretary, the fricken person in charge of bringing the birthday candles. It wouldn’t take much to start the process.

Just venting more then anything else:)

@Lizzi
I can definitely confirm that here on the God Coast steppers do go to prisons. Numinbah correctional facility and Waco up in Brisbane, for sure. I know this because they advertise for people to volunteer to do this at meetings as a form of service work and I was personally asked to go on a couple of occasions. I refused.
I am thinking that the court asked the press not to publish her name after the initial story which mentioned the name O,Connor was published. That is understandable given that there is a child involved.

I believe that they held the name of the suicide victim back in all reports. The released statement of “The O’Connor woman died, leaving behind her four-year-old daughter.” is most likely referring to the geographical location of the suburb she lived in.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/O%27Connor,_Western_Australia

Would they give evidence in a general way and let the judge look for the similarities and take what he wants and leave the rest.
Hmmm I foresee a problem with witness credibility as they have all previously admitted to being insane.

Disclosure and Blame, It’s like the game Clue but without all of the clues  There is a lot of missing info as you both said. I think the story “stinks” from either pov. Like Blame pointed out, it’s hardly enough info to say it surely looks like murder. However, by what I see, if the boyfriend’s contention is removed, it looks like a suicide pact either (from what we know, no note, etc.).
I took ‘injected themselves with the drug’ to mean, no one else was there, but the two. I didn’t catch how you read it until now. If she’s inexperienced, but had been given a taste of it a couple of times before, she may have known enough just to want it. She also could have been willing to shoot it on her own to get “high”, but not know how much was in the dose – that she could die. On the other hand, many don’t like to do it on their own, so if a murder defendant, he could claim he was helping her for that reason.

arg***looks LESS like a suice pact (4th line from the top)

WOW Jill,
just WOW!

“It is only where “boy meets girl on A.A. campus,” and love follows at first sight, that difficulties may develop.” 12&12 p.119, Step Twelve

Bill forgot the one about Step Thirteen and he should have written the 13&13 instead;

It is only where “founding father of A.A. meets young divorced editor at A.A. Grapevine,” and adultery follows at first sight, that difficulties may develop and force you to give up 10% of the royalties your wife should have gotten. 13&13 p.Unknown 13th Step

exactly JR. Considering all the shilling Lois did for Bill by creating the ladies auxialiary, later alanon and money collected by using alanon as a gateway drug to AA, Bill had no business giving away that 10%. They should have had a prenup. Young divorced editor did her share of shilling/free labor and the 10% was probably peanuts. Wilson promised the contributors of the big book some of the profit, they never got a dime. He screwed everybody, no pun intended. That’s why he was ex-communicated from the Oxford Group by Buchman.

This cat will get his coming, Either by justice or his way of life he will meet the wrath. He’s the devil who came in and took away a young life. She had problems but was handling them until he came into her life. He pushed her down the wrong road and dug her grave for her. Evil son of a bitch, thank god your forever out of her daughters life and she will be given the long happy healthy life that her mother was denied, u scum!
Enjoy jail, if you weasel your way outta that, tie a rope…