Suicidal Couple Meets at Alcoholics Anonymous

 

Bail for Assisted Suicide Suspect

A man who allegedly took part in a heroin suicide pact and helped his girlfriend die of a drug overdose has been granted bail.

John Christopher Walmsley, 33, faces charges of aiding and abetting suicide and supplying a drug of dependence. He has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Police allege Walmsley and his 25-year-old girlfriend formed a pact to kill themselves in late December last year.

Walmsley allegedly bought six doses of heroin, each weighing about 0.25g, and the couple injected themselves with the drug.

The woman died, leaving behind a young daughter, but Walmsley survived and has been in custody since his arrest in April.

The ACT Supreme Court heard yesterday Walmsley’s girlfriend had not been a drug addict but had been abusing alcohol when she met the man at Alcoholics Anonymous.

Read the rest… The fact that the man had no business in AA to begin with will come as no surprise to anyone.

______

h/t Sally!

  • Swamibedpan

    AA is not safe anywhere. Anyone can go there and they do. By the sounds of this she had not stopped drinking (not surprising) even though she was going to a program that never fails. Lol. And was yet another victim of the demented predators that infest these places.
    Is there a greater concentration of scumbags on earth than the rooms of aa?

  • Swamibedpan

    Suicide pact eh? Pretty good defence for just about any murder I’d say.

  • disclosure

    It’s slogan time…
    Boy meets girl on AA campus!

    R eal
    E xciting
    L ove
    A ffair
    T urns
    I nto
    O utrageous
    N ightmare
    S obriety
    H angs
    I n
    P eril

  • Sally

    Swami, interesting about your opinion this actually being a murder. I’m thinking you might be right Watson ;)

    Walmsley was a veteran user of heroin and likely had a high tolerance but she wasn’t an addict. Unless he is a total imbecil he know’s he’s going to get high, but it could/would probably kill her.

    “Police say he has been an addict for 15 years and introduced his girlfriend to the drug.” and “Walmsley’s girlfriend had not been a drug addict”

  • causeandeffect

    Brilliant one disclosure!!!

  • Amy

    I agree with c&e disclosure !!!!

    Sally, very interesting point.

  • Sally

    I’m bothered by the reporter here, referring to the victim as:

    “his girlfriend”
    “his 25-year-old girlfriend”
    “The woman”
    “Walmsley’s girlfriend”
    “she”

    Oh yeah, her.

  • AnnaZed

    Do they only have his word that it was a suicide pact? Murderers often claim that they just wanted to kill themselves. I wonder if like the Maine murder the cops are just furiously writing down whatever bullshit some AA member throws at them. Sure smells like a murder to me, yet the guy got bail? Curious.

  • AnnaZed

    @disclosure ~ Not bagging on you personally (really, really not), because one hears that little phrase in AA all of the time: Boy meets girl on AA campus.

    Usually the context is some tutting about some poor female in her twenties (rather like this now dead young mother) who falls into some sort of sexual relationship (read: is 13 stepped) with some guy in AA and how she needs to look at her own part in whatever happened. That is if she is still alive.

    I just wanted to say, AA is not a campus, AA is not a school, there is no AA campus!

    [just sayin']

  • Swamibedpan

    Notice at the end of the article is a list of helplines to call. Don’t call the Salvo Crisis Line for fuck sake, thats the Salvation Army you will get a stepper or an apologist for steppism for sure.
    I wonder if Corrective Services will insist that Walmsley attends aa as a condition of his bail. They (essentially probation staff) can do that without a specific court order down here and they do. Maybe he will find another ‘girlfriend’ in aa while he awaits trial, then extradition to NSW to face fraud charges, and undergoes methadone treatment and psychiatric care and tries to overcome his selfharming/suicidal urges and processes his anger towards witnesses. Queue up alkie chicks in aa he is quite a catch.
    Then when god has forgiven him and he has sued for being kept in custody without trial for so long and has learned to love himself he can sponsor others.
    And fuck the orphaned kid.

  • Swamibedpan

    I would say there is not enough enough evidence to get a murder conviction hence the lesser charge but the cops think it was murder and thats why he has been in custody so long and they oppose bail.
    Funny how in these stories the journalists don’t get the irony.. .they met in aa… then aa is offered as a solution to mental health problems? (Salvos). AA is always mentioned in a matter of fact sort of way and never presented as part of the problem. But like so so many others she was alive, albeit with a drinking problem, before she went to aa and now she is dead.
    AA just flies under the radar every time. It is the teflon cult.

  • Swamibedpan

    Australia has a successful needle exchange program, I believe some places provide venues where addicts can go to shoot up and methadone treatment is widely available. Thats quite a bit of help. All the ‘girlfriend’ gets is a fucking a meetings where still in the grip of rampant alcohol abuse she is a sitting duck for a streetwise predator.
    What I want to say is that aa does not change where ever you go, it is a dangerous place, its stop drinking program circa 1936 does not work and the same crazy shit keeps happening everywhere.
    She was not an addict. She might never have met that crazy fuck if she hadn’t gone to aa and her child would still have its mother. Maybe she was told the same lies as me…’this really works. It is the only thing that works.’ So she went to aa.
    When these lies eventually lead to a death like this it is not unreasonable to look at the full chain of events and ask some questions about liability. Does aa ever warn its recruits about the dangers within. Nope.
    Tell me those of you who go to smart or some other recovery program, do you know of a single incident when someone at these programs ended up dead at the hands of another member?

  • Swamibedpan

    Ok say I am wrong about the murder theory and it was a genuine suicide pact. Then it is the same old story. Goes to aa, gets exposed to the koolaid and then suicides. Just like the guy in Wilsons house.
    Was she suicidal before going to aa,who knows? But I bet she was not in a relationship with someone who was also suicidal and fucked up enough to actually do it. She had to go to aa to get that.

  • Sally

    Just accidentally deleted my post before sending..argg

    I was trying to get it straight. He’s being let out now, 7 months after his initial arrest, to save him a few months in jail before his trial begins. Like it’s already been noted on ST, he had no business being in AA before. But is being released anyway now, so he can get the help he “needs” – It failed before and someone is died. This after he had known mental problems, anger issues, and drug dependance. Apparently, nothing has changed about his status with “problems”, but they are letting him OUT to get it.

    He’s ordered no contact with the 18 witnesses in his case. But “had also allegedly expressed anger towards witnesses in the matter” at the time of his arrest.” The witnesses are most likely important to the case against him.

    Btw, I think the victim’s name is O’Connor.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-04-14/man-charged-over-heroin-suicide-pact/2615902
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-11/suicide-pact-accused-granted-bail/3496926?section=act

    • Cassandra

      The dead woman’s name was NOT O’Connor. O’Connor is a suburb in the older, inner part of Canberra, the national capital of Australia. Similar to a suburb of urban Washington D.C., if only it was not just a square mile. The A.C.T. (Australian Capital Territory) is 910 square miles in area, not D.C.’s one. The “O’Connor woman” means the woman who lived in O’Connor, A.C.T. JCW WAS FOUND GUILTY, RECENTLY. See below … Oh, damn Caps Lock …

  • Swamibedpan

    Justice Refshauge said releasing Walmsley on bail would allow him to access the drug rehabilitation services he needs.

    Methadone is available in jail in canberra as is psychiatric care. So what exactly are the rehabilitation services he needs that he cannot get in jail.
    Meetings?
    Guess it is a get out of jail free card then.

  • Lizzi

    @ swami
    A little to close to home for me and you i guess. As far as I’m aware 12 step programs are not yet available in Australian jails there are other drug and alcohol programs mainly to cater for aboriginal inmates. Will investigate further.I am aware of a attempt by the ” endevour church” which was based in Byron, ( course in miracles) to introduce it into the prison systems. Not sure what happened to the group, wether they are still active or not.
    And this time I’m not thanking god for the salvos!

  • Border Collie Mix

    Saying “don’t get in a relationship your first year” and “boy meets girl on AA campus” are phrases used to put the blame squarely on the victim and make safety in AA seem like a non issue. Someone will also probably say “She would be alive if she had gotten a sponsor….the right sponsor….called her sponsor…not been drinking….been praying….had a higher power…..listened to her sponsor……” I am really seeing how people’s well being has been put on a back burner just because they have a problem with alcohol and/or drugs. The whole system is completely blind to troubled people’s right to be safe and stay alive.

  • Lizzi

    Sorry endeavor academy.
    It was the salvos that handed over the meetings list to my ex, hence my bitterness towards them. I remember looking at the list and thinking, surely people don’t do go twice and three times a day, to talk about something that messed up their lives, where did the make peace with the past and move on come into it?

  • Rick

    @Border Collie Mix:
    It’s sickening isn’t it? Only in twelve step programs can a bunch of blithering idiots claim some authority to fuck with people’s heads and meddle in every aspect of their lives – until it goes wrong of course. The tragedy is the “system” gives these idiots that authority…

  • Sally

    Border Collie, you are right. Keep taking note of that as your going to meetings. Obviously it’s not your focus, but you really cannot let your guard down.

    There is nothing definitive about “the right sponsor….called her sponsor…not been drinking….been praying….had a higher power…..listened to her sponsor……”. How that “would” have kept her alive is propaganda talk, deserving no respect and actually a slap.

    The fact is, she would be alive if she didn’t meet him and/or he didn’t participate in her death. Or, if she didn’t do it to herself (if that is the case). She might be alive if there were specific rules about membership. Awareness spoken about at the meetings and imbedded in the minds of members during the readings and at every meeting – might have helped: “Tradition One: There is nothing more important than personal safety. Sobriety will mean nothing if you are dead. The AA fellowship cares, etc.”.

    Add a Safety Position to the trusted servants. There are members in charge of making coffee, handing out tokens, chairing, a secretary, the fricken person in charge of bringing the birthday candles. It wouldn’t take much to start the process.

    Just venting more then anything else:)

  • disclosure

    AZ- No baggage detected.
    AA slogans and sayings are accepted as truth because they rhyme, are clever, and are repeated. They have no credibility yet are accepted as truth by thousands. I’m just glad I don’t have to go any more to put faces and friendships to the carnage. I just could not take it any more.
    Perhaps the victim had a dream. Perhaps if she were not in AA her suicide mission could have been recklessly chasing said dream instead of succumbing to jails, institutions, and death. Surely she would not have met Mr. Wrong.
    I love your post Sally; I feel that you also have experienced the pain of loss in AA. What AA needs are some clever slogans about suicide. How about “Meeting Mating Might Mean Mort” or “Run don’t Die”.

  • http://www.blamedenial.co.uk/ B l A m E

    Interesting case. There are so many things here it is hard to know where to start but seeing as the comments above do a very good job of highlighting them, I’ll focus on the murder charge problem. The article states they ‘injected themselves with the drug’. I am pretty sure any autopsy would reveal if he had done it for her, although I am not sure – to do with angles, pressure/damage on/to the skin/muscle tissue, etc caused by the needle. So if he didn’t inject her, I don’t see how it is murder.

    Apparently he introduced her to the drug, and I agree his tolerance was probably higher than hers for obvious reasons. That said it was her choice to take the drug, and we have to be careful not to take people’s personal responsibility away from them. Of course the other thing that probably didn’t help was the fact that alcohol of was her drug of choice, and alcohol and heroin are a dangerous mix at the best of times.

    Bottom line is that there is far too much information missing to be able to be sure of exactly what happened. I suspect it was more likely an overdose. I would like to know if there was a note left? Did this happen in the same house as her daughter whilst her daughter was there?

    Anyway my 2 pennies, or cents if you prefer.

    B l A m E

  • disclosure

    It’s amazing how buried this story seems. I can’t find the victims first name and see some redirects and deletions where there once was information. One gets the feeling she came from a powerful and very private family.

    • John 8:7

      ‘It’s the VIBE’ of course – “One gets the Feeling” … schmeeling … In legal fact, the name of the dead mother was probably being withheld/supressed to limit any identification of her orphaned 3 y.o. daughter… i.m.h.o.

      And related to ‘Swami-bedpan’ below, there is in fact a suburb of the ACT named O’Connor (inner older suburb). Only dates from the 1950s …

      Subject to any appeal, JCW’s been found guilty – see above.

  • Swamibedpan

    @Lizzi
    I can definitely confirm that here on the God Coast steppers do go to prisons. Numinbah correctional facility and Waco up in Brisbane, for sure. I know this because they advertise for people to volunteer to do this at meetings as a form of service work and I was personally asked to go on a couple of occasions. I refused.
    I am thinking that the court asked the press not to publish her name after the initial story which mentioned the name O,Connor was published. That is understandable given that there is a child involved.

  • Swamibedpan

    God Coast!

  • http://anonymousjr.keepandshare.com JR Harris

    I believe that they held the name of the suicide victim back in all reports. The released statement of “The O’Connor woman died, leaving behind her four-year-old daughter.” is most likely referring to the geographical location of the suburb she lived in.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/O%27Connor,_Western_Australia

  • Swamibedpan

    @JR
    No not in this case. O’Connor is in Perth, Western Australia. These events took place in Canberra ACT ( Australian Capital Territory ).
    I think we are seeing name suppression after it was initially leaked.
    By the way 18 is a lot of witnesses for a case involving a homeless person from another state. Could they be the people from the group where they met? Why does the article even mention that they met at an aa meeting? Would it mention it if they had met at a bar? or anywhere else?

  • AnnaZed

    @ Swami ~ Wouldn’t that be awesome if an entire home-group of AAs were witnesses at a trail, and they spoke the truth, and they gave their names?

    [nah, won't happen]

  • http://anonymousjr.keepandshare.com JR Harris

    How would they swear all 18 in? Have them put their hand on a “Big Book” and say, “I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth except when to do so would injure them or others. so help me Bill Wilson?”

  • Swamibedpan

    Would they give evidence in a general way and let the judge look for the similarities and take what he wants and leave the rest.
    Hmmm I foresee a problem with witness credibility as they have all previously admitted to being insane.

  • http://anonymousjr.keepandshare.com JR Harris

    I can hear the cross examination now, “So tell me Mr. John D., have you ever personally known or ever been told about a crime that you didn’t report to the police?” Then the ultimate question, “Can you describe to me in detail the person, places and things that happened on the date in question?”

    “Your Honor, can you instruct the witness to answer my questions? Hopefully not using a vague slogan or parts of the Serenity Prayer. I’ve heard the same testimony from the last 17 witnesses. Otherwise, I move for a mistrial.”

  • Sally

    Disclosure and Blame, It’s like the game Clue but without all of the clues  There is a lot of missing info as you both said. I think the story “stinks” from either pov. Like Blame pointed out, it’s hardly enough info to say it surely looks like murder. However, by what I see, if the boyfriend’s contention is removed, it looks like a suicide pact either (from what we know, no note, etc.).
    I took ‘injected themselves with the drug’ to mean, no one else was there, but the two. I didn’t catch how you read it until now. If she’s inexperienced, but had been given a taste of it a couple of times before, she may have known enough just to want it. She also could have been willing to shoot it on her own to get “high”, but not know how much was in the dose – that she could die. On the other hand, many don’t like to do it on their own, so if a murder defendant, he could claim he was helping her for that reason.

  • Sally

    There were some funny comments here :) .
    I thought that her name may have been a location also.

  • Sally

    arg***looks LESS like a suice pact (4th line from the top)

  • Jill

    disclosure,
    Here’s a slogan..”Til death do us part”

  • disclosure

    WOW Jill,
    just WOW!

  • Elisa

    “Boyfriend” was probably a drug dealer. Very experienced at “introducing” drugs to vulnerable people. Vulnerable person on drugs becomes exploited sexually and financially to get more money and drugs. Drug dealers complain of being 13 stepped by the women, regardless of who has what time. Slogan — “There’s a slip under every skirt.” — there is no equivalent slogan applying to women. “Boy meets girl on AA campus” I believe is a direct quote from the 12th step in the 12&12. Same paragraph tells single AAs if they cannot find partners thoroughly grounded in AA spirituality, they can have wonderful lives doing service for the cult (I mean program). The concept of 13 step is fuzzy, because the concept of time is fuzzy. Say oldtimer has 10 years, goes on a bender, comes back, gets involved with newcomer with 8 months or fellow AA he has known for 8 years, 10 year oldtimer will whine he was 13 stepped. Say oldtimer claims to have 10 years, but was lying and has eight days, gets involved with AA who has 5 years, did the 5 year 13 step the 10 year? If two newcomers with less than a year who were mandated to AA but aren’t alcoholics or addicts become involved, is that a 13 step? Group leaders preying on newcomers is the obvious vehicle for exploitation, but the exploitation and criminal behavior occur at every level of the cult. When you consider the rate of relapse in AA (the majority) and lack of verification of actual sober time (which is impossible) and the incidence of mandated criminals (roughly 40% or so) the literal meaning of 13 step doesn’t cover it. 13 step is a rough translation of prison lingo. The pigeon is new to the jail as the newcomer is new to AA, but just as in an actual jail, the strong and connected band together to prey and weak and defenseless regardless of length of incarceration and numbers of incarceration.

  • http://anonymousjr.keepandshare.com JR Harris

    “It is only where “boy meets girl on A.A. campus,” and love follows at first sight, that difficulties may develop.” 12&12 p.119, Step Twelve

    Bill forgot the one about Step Thirteen and he should have written the 13&13 instead;

    It is only where “founding father of A.A. meets young divorced editor at A.A. Grapevine,” and adultery follows at first sight, that difficulties may develop and force you to give up 10% of the royalties your wife should have gotten. 13&13 p.Unknown 13th Step

  • Jill

    Elisa,
    As a mandated newcomer that you describe above, I would not consider that situation a 13 step because step 1 thru 12 don’t exist for me. Cult members may consider it a 13 step, though. I can’t imagine dating any man from AA because -(Slogan) – “there’s a nut in every pair of pants”

  • Elisa

    exactly JR. Considering all the shilling Lois did for Bill by creating the ladies auxialiary, later alanon and money collected by using alanon as a gateway drug to AA, Bill had no business giving away that 10%. They should have had a prenup. Young divorced editor did her share of shilling/free labor and the 10% was probably peanuts. Wilson promised the contributors of the big book some of the profit, they never got a dime. He screwed everybody, no pun intended. That’s why he was ex-communicated from the Oxford Group by Buchman.

  • Elisa

    “a nut in every pair of pant” ha, ha. Maybe you should share that at a meeting. My jaw dropped the first time I heard some nut make the remark about the slip and the skirt. Especially since most of the women were wearing pants. Women haven’t been referred to as “skirts” since — well I don’t know, before my time. I had to ask someone what it meant. Those stupid sayings are designed to be so ambiguous you have to ask about them for a reason. Sort of an inverted pick up line for oldtimers recruting newcomers. “The only stupid question is the question you don’t ask.” Smart questions like “Is this a cult?” however, are banned. If you are uncertain what to share in a meeting, ask your sponsor first…..they can censor it and/or avail themselves of personal info they can spread to the whole group either behind your back or in front of your face. But gossip is prohibited.

  • JohnsScum

    This cat will get his coming, Either by justice or his way of life he will meet the wrath. He’s the devil who came in and took away a young life. She had problems but was handling them until he came into her life. He pushed her down the wrong road and dug her grave for her. Evil son of a bitch, thank god your forever out of her daughters life and she will be given the long happy healthy life that her mother was denied, u scum!
    Enjoy jail, if you weasel your way outta that, tie a rope…

  • elizabethm527

    How do I become part of this community online? I have an AA story to top all AA stories to tell y’all..I am not kidding. Where do I sign up and let you know what I know? thank you, luv and hugs, e.

    • Guest

      You can just post here and talk to Ilse, this is her blog along with another person. You have posted on stop13step and you can go to http://www.leavingaa.com and post it there. I would be happy to speak with you.

  • John 8:7

    See http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-26/walmsley-found-guilting-of-assisting-suicide/4845716?section=act – a jury of his peers has just found JC Walmsley to be guilty of assisting his partner’s suicide two years ago. – the jury deliberated for about a day and a half before delivering a guilty verdict – now, JCW remains on bail, awaiting Sentencing. All you folk who’d already judged can really feel righteouslyvindicated. I feel sorry for everyone involved. JOHN 8:7

    • Swamibedpan

      Thanks for keeping us up to date on that, it has been more than 2 years since that came up but I remember it. I am happy with the verdict but don’t feel righteously vindicated just kind of vagued out by it all as in the last 2 years I have realised the true magnitude of the stepper monolith and apart from those who have been burned by it most people just don’t care.
      I restate what I said at the beginning of the thread.
      AA is not safe anywhere.

  • blind justice