Fundiemental Gymnastics

Our friend, John, writes the My Word Like Fire blog. He’s thinks we’re going to Hell, but he’s a good guy. I don’t often agree with what him or the readers of his blog, but this quote below seems to make a lot of sense:

“Wendy, You are so right. Satan is cunning, baffling and powerful. This is my second time commenting as an ex-AA member like yourself. Once I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was re-born in the Spirit, I almost immediately could not attend AA meetings. The Lord revealed to me that I was in an extremely dangerous place…

One last note on the cunningness of Satan. I was in a local Christian book store and checked out the Recovery Bible – New Living Translation, just for the heck of it. I was shocked; Satan has slithered into that book! It references the twelve steps exactly as in AA with the “god of your understanding” and “higher power”. It also recommends AA. Obviously there is a collaboration between AA and the publishers of that Pantheistic “b”ible (small “b”. The word of Satan masquerading as the Word of God! He is the great deceiver and forger!”

– Gail, a fundamentalist Christian commenting on the My Word Like Fire blog.

I think we should put Gail and Dick B. in a ring for a winner-take-all cage match.

  • Lucy

    “I think we should put Gail and Dick B. in a ring for a winner-take-all cage match. ”

    I nominate Satan as the referee.

  • FKABB

    Do you like your nuts salted or plain.

  • SoberPJ

    Superstitious anthropomorphic paranoia at its finest.

  • FKABB

    Dueling Dingbats.

  • I have to wonder who is training the youth of America to believe in Faith Healing. The followers of the prophet Bill Wilson are being led down the path of jails, institutions and death by well respected members of academia who are training the youth of America in Entheogen (The use of mind altering drugs to reach a “Spiritual Awakening” such as that envisioned by the prophet Bill Wilson who claimed to have reached this point). Unfortunately they use many pre-1950 manuscripts and studies during thier research. They are now focusing on a 2006 study tied to John Hopkins entitled “Psilocybin can occasion mystical-type experiences having substantial and sustained personal
    meaning and spiritual significance.” A growing following is going on in the “Council on Spiritual Practices” (CSP) which covened in 1993 and organized in 1994 by Bob Jesse.

    The Council on Spiritual Practices have organized several conferences and working meetings with scholars and researchers in the following Academic Institutions:

    Johns Hopkins University
    University of California at Berkeley
    University of California at Los Angeles
    University of California San Francisco
    University of Chicago
    University of Pennsylvania
    University of Toronto
    University of Tennessee
    Wayne State University
    Chicago Theological Seminary

    It would be interesting to see what influence the faith healers preaching Entheogen have on the followers of the prophet Bill Wilson. They seem rather organized and very few people know about them. Could it be they are sneaking in the backdoor and staying under the radar, training other people how to further the cause of Wilsonism (aka Buchmanism) using mind altering drugs?

  • Tallmike

    I have read some of the articles there. Dick B. is taken to task for his reluctance to face the truth about both Dr Bob and Bill W being heavily into spiritualism. It was spiritualism, not spiritual and Bill W. was easily confused. Oh well, what else is new? Dick B. doesn’t like to acknowledge the Swedenborgian influence on Bill W. nor the influence of Emmet Fox. Perhaps AA has been placed upon such a pedestal by him that all room for objective reasoning dried up and blew away like dandelion seeds after the flowering.

  • causeandeffect

    Uh, is it too late to get in on those psilocybin experiments? I really need a spiritual awakening.

    Interesting that BW took LSD in an attempt to have a spiritual awakening he claimed to have already had, isn’t it? I mean, once you’ve had one, using LSD shouldn’t make a difference, should it?

    Oh, and I agree with this John nut. AA is a cunning, baffling and powerful Satan. I mean, isn’t Satan supposed to be the father of lies?

    Why am I asking so many questions?

  • Lucy

    C&E “”Why am I asking so many questions?”

    LSD flashback from the 60s. Happens to me all the time, especially when I think of Bill tripping with Lois and Helen.

  • zooromeo

    Jesus H Fucking CHRIST !!!!!

    What a story 🙂

  • Lucy

    I VERY strongly recommend this movie for Gail and Dick B –

    http://www.joinusthemovie.com/reviews.php

    It’s the first documentary I have ever seen which outright calls a fundamentalist Christian church a “cult” and shows what happens when damaged members try to prove it.

  • mcgowdog

    … and there will be wailing and knashing of teeth. The Devil is so cunning that he hid himself in a book for alcoholics because… we all know how beloved and precious they all are.

  • MikeAugustine

    Things a little slow since Tony J hightailed it and Danny took a dive, McGowdog? Back to your man-cave please. Maybe JD will stop by and say hi.

  • mcgowdog

    I haven’t seen/heard from Tony J or Cuda in a long while now.

    Danny who?

    JD? I think he kicked me off his Delphi forum when I questioned him about this Mondotuna thing. Given his LifeRing affiliation, we don’t got much in common.

    It’s back to just me, Rob, Jim, and Joe.

  • M.A., I consider you my friend as well, and this forum has exposed much about A.A. I don’t have to agree with everything here, and I don’t, but I appreciate the old school allowance of differing views, and I totally appreciate the stand against the deception inherent in the 12 Step relgious goliath.

  • MA

    Howdy, John. Nice to see you again.

    Dang, McGow. You catch shit here even when you’re being nice! I hope Cuda is doing ok. I didn’t notice he was absent from your place.

  • hulahoop

    Okay, I have to speak up here and validate this comment –
    “Wendy, You are so right. Satan is cunning, baffling and powerful. This is my second time commenting as an ex-AA member like yourself. Once I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was re-born in the Spirit, I almost immediately could not attend AA meetings. The Lord revealed to me that I was in an extremely dangerous place…

    I do not agree with everything said, but I do believe that anyone who professes to be of the Christian belief cannot to suscribe to the AA belief at the same time because the two contradict one another. It was and is my belief in God and Jesus that saved my ass from AA. The two just did not go together for me. I cringed each time I heard the words “higher power” or “God as you understand him” or “God = Group of Drunks.” Yet there was so much God speak in AA and so many prayers.

    When I questioned my wanna be sponsor (who sent out Jesus daily messages each day along with AA meditations) she told me the hope was newly minted AA members would eventually graduate from the higher power concept to becoming true believing Christians. That is bait and switch. I don’t hold much love for churches nor organized religion, but at least you know what to expect when you walk in to a church for the most part.

    No Christian will ever be able to justify AA to me. They of all people should know better and should recognize a false religion and prophet when they see one. I don’t care how much “good” they say AA has done or how much they claim AA has helped them. The bottom line is AA is a religion of its own. There is no believing both whole heartedly.

  • Sally

    “I do believe that anyone who professes to be of the Christian belief cannot to suscribe to the AA belief at the same time because the two contradict one another” I feel the same, at least for myself. I wonder though, exactly why you don’t think the two can go together?

  • I believe it could be “the end justifies the means” defense. Highly religious people see the words of the prophet Bill Wilson as chance to further thier religion but are not aware of its history. The reason they go together is because people do not know the actual history of AA. All they see and hear is that it has worked for millions of people and no one is telling them differently.

    I believe the current authority on this would be Dick B. (aka Richard Burns) who I believe wants religion to be a part of addiction recovery, but is extremely critical of Bill Wilson. The followers of the prophet Bill Wilson have even gone so far as banning him online in an attempt to hide the truth. If people want a religious addiction recovery, they should be able to get one, not one that is tainted by a false prophet.

  • mikeblamedenial

    Sally says
    “I do believe that anyone who professes to be of the Christian belief cannot to suscribe to the AA belief at the same time because the two contradict one another” I feel the same, at least for myself. I wonder though, exactly why you don’t think the two can go together?”

    Here is why we believe that Christian and steppist theology cannot mutually coexist within the same belief system:

  • Sally

    I always knew AA taught to ask for gods will only, in prayer, but I always thought it really meant – as long as the will was to keep us sober. Or, it must be that god wants us to be sober…..Like a barter system, we’ll give you all of our sins and in return, you keep us sober….Well, like everything I read in the bb or heard people disucss in meetings – It didn’t make any sense. I guess that is why they say don’t think, just do. They imply it is because we can’t really think clearly when we first come around but what it really means is that once we start trying to make any sense of it all (think), we’d complicate it and won’t be able to work it….I was told if I didn’t beleive god would help me (which is what i said), then I should choose another higher power, which was ONEof the most insulting things I ever heard. oof!

    I liked this video a lot blame, and the comments above.

  • hulahoop

    Sally says, Sally says “I do believe that anyone who professes to be of the Christian belief cannot to suscribe to the AA belief at the same time because the two contradict one another” I feel the same, at least for myself. I wonder though, exactly why you don’t think the two can go together?

    Because of the higher power issue. The bible is very specific about false gods and idols. My bible thumping grandmother believes anyone who worships a God of a different religion is going to hell. I don’t believe that. For all I know all of the different Gods of all the different religions get together on Saturday nights for a game of poker and to laugh at what humans have managed to do in the name of religion.

    I do not believe it is acceptable for me to endorse someone choosing a doorknob or a motorcycle or their pet or a tree or a group of drunks or anything else based on what I believe. It does not feel right to me to be involved in anything like that. I have no control over what people believe or whatever gets them through what they are going through. I do have control over myself, and I refuse to sit in a room and act like I approve of and be a part of what is going on there when it feels wrong. And there is no way I am going to sugar coat what is happening there and use a hidden agenda to turn people in to Christians.

    JR says JR Harris says I believe it could be “the end justifies the means” defense. Highly religious people see the words of the prophet Bill Wilson as chance to further thier religion but are not aware of its history. The reason they go together is because people do not know the actual history of AA. All they see and hear is that it has worked for millions of people and no one is telling them differently.

    Yes, many of the bible thumping members do believe the end justifies the means. Only it doesn’t. They are lying and manipulating people. Slowly brainwashing them. That is wrong. AA claims to be on thing (a support group or fellowship for alcoholics by alcoholics) when in reality AA is a religion all of its own. They take advantage of lonely people who are experiencing a difficult time with substance abuse. It is offensive and disgusting to me.

    I’ve told quite of few of them about the roots of AA. Where it really came from and all about Bill Wilson and all of that. None of them seem to care because “AA has helped so many people…blah, blah, blah.”

  • Tallmike

    “Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.”

    Does that seem familiar? To offer any kind of countering view produces cognitive dissonance and those people’s minds can’t tolerate it. Just like Fox Mulder, they “want to believe”. Personally, I don’t want to believe. I want facts and evidence and then trust my abilities to ponder, analyze, and sort things out. (like most folks unwilling to blindly follow goofy tenets)