Quote of the Day

“I have not used the term “dry drunk” since I left AA and one of my (former) AA comrades accosted me in the grocery store and accused me of being one. Right there in the produce section! To her, my actual state of mind and health was unimportant: the only thing that mattered was that I had left the program, and to her, that equated with drinking. Since I was physically sober, that had to mean I was a “dry drunk”.

The term COULD be useful if it was uniformly used to describe a person who is not drinking, but is still exhibiting some of the behaviors of someone who is actively addicted to alcohol. However, as long as it continues to be used as a pejorative term, applied by AA members to outsiders, it is of dubious utility.”

– “onlythetruth“; a former AA in a thread about the term “dry drunk,” sharing his/her experience with a current member of the fellowship after leaving AA.

  • DeConstructor

    I would love to hear comments from JD, Mr Squires, Pinsky, and Dr Phil regarding this post.

    This is the crux of the failure of AA, and the constant deception that is used by them, and the recovery industry, that the AA faith is NOT about stopping drinking but rather lifelong indoctrination into their theology and dogma.

    Publicity of this dishonesty is a very good thing, however my gut reaction is that the trolls and evangelists of the AA faith will only continue to make nasty personal remarks rather than actually confront or explain this use of deception.

  • flannigan

    Does anyone know the origin of the term “dry drunk”? I have been told that it was used to describe someone who had stopped abusing alcohol but was still unsteady on his feet. due to residual effects of alcohol abuse after days or weeks of stopping.

  • AllyB

    @ flannigan, – I read this quote on this blog some time ago about dry drunks.

    “A very serious Post Acute Withdrawal problem – though perhaps not as common as the others – is difficulty with physical coordination. Common symptoms are dizziness, trouble with balance, problems with coordination between hand and eye, and slow reflexes. These result in clumsiness and accident proneness. This is how the term “dry drunk” came into being. When alcoholics appeared drunk because of stumbling and clumsiness, but had not been drinking, they were said to be “dry drunk.” They had the appearance of being intoxicated without drinking. “

  • flannigan

    @AllyB
    Thanks. I had always figured it was a medical description that had been perverted by AA.

    • MA

      Here is an old post on dry drunk.

  • Commonsense

    “one of my (former) AA comrades accosted me in the grocery store and accused me of being one.” This quote underscores what is obvious about many, many devoted AA members – they are blindly indoctrinated and pitifully screwed up in their behavior. But what is even more screwed up are the so-called medical professionals that promote AA as an evidence-based scientific solution for addictive drinking.

  • I don’t know why, but it kind of reminds me of an art appreciation class of the old masters I took. The professor would mark the question wrong if you just described painting or statue. You would have to describe “how it made you feel” and you would always get the answer right. There were no right or wrong answers if you answered this way. Psychologists also always ask you “how does that make you feel”?

    Perhaps the best artistic and psychological way to respond to someone who accuses you of being a “Dry Drunk” is to tell then “how you feel” about them asking you that. You can’t deny you are a Dry Drunk because they will pull the Denial card on you. To diffuse that accusation, the best reply may be to reply is in the form of a question that contains no denial such as:

    “Why would you accuse me of that and try to hurt my recovery?”

    It should stop them in thier tracks.

  • JD

    Though hardly ever brought up by AAs, this is a term non-AAs can’t seem to leave alone. I’ve wondered why on occasion. Since it serves to really light you up and antis go from zero to ‘werry furrious’ almost instantly without anyone on the other side of it, what do you get out of that to make it irresistable to rehash every 26 minutes?

    C&E wants anyone to come along and take the bait so someone can be on the other side of this tired old trip around the track. It’s a hot button or some with no purpose other than for antis to get a victim rush.

    The AAs usually try to explain there are benefits from understanding our alcoholism, enlarging our world, connecting with reality, making peace with our past, pulling even by setting errors straight, and living a life guided by principles that we’d not ordinarily abide by.

    And the antis take that to be an attack on them personally, that the AAs are saying they are bad, and then the AA try to get across they are not saying that but the antis say they are…and it goes on.

    So enjoy the journey around the rut, and say all the usual things and then draw back to square one. Not much time will pass before people will require another anger fix and the next tired old horse will be brought out to be flogged again.

    I know this process has nothing to do with getting information or insight, so forgive me if I do something else while you guys dig the rut deeper.

  • Just back from Hawaii, glad to see you all here still ranting the anti AA stuff, Reporting a serious rape stories and the like.

    I didn’t bring my computer on purpose so as to not blog, and take a break from this AA crap.
    It was a good idea. I’m now addicted to blogging LOL oh well.
    MA -I’m sure once I leave AA I may run into people but whatever. As we expose the criminal rapist being unleashed, violence, and murder as well as 13 stepping and sexual harassment, the recovery industry can be revamped.

  • “The AAs usually try to explain there are benefits from understanding our alcoholism, enlarging our world, connecting with reality, making peace with our past, pulling even by setting errors straight, and living a life guided by principles that we’d not ordinarily abide by.”

    JD, are you speaking for AA as a whole, or just yourself? Have you ever used the manipulative tactic of labeling someone a “Dry Drunk”?

    (Remember, the ST Crew is here to help you with your “rigorous honesty”, your “moral inventory” and humility. They are only doing this to help you connect with reality by setting errors straight. You see the affliction of Steppism, often leads to the boasting of very ridiculous claims that have no substance in actual truth, you should be living a life guided by principles that people not afflicted with Steppism ordinarily abide by.)

  • Rick045

    JD wrote – “Though hardly ever brought up by AAs, this is a term non-AAs can’t seem to leave alone.”

    I heard the term used regularly by active AA members, both during and away from meetings. For me to say that it was “hardly ever brought up by AAs” would be a complete lie, (or rigorous honesty)…

  • JD

    Rick, read the entire thread. How often do people say it’s used? Do they say it’s used regularly? Both during and away from meetings (which would be all the time).

    Or, is it more true that is is hardly ever brought up by AAs? Shall we deal with reality as it’s experienced by the many or shall things be discussed only in reference to your amplified sensitivities?

  • Good question JD. How often would you say “dry drunk” is used by people in AA? Try to be specific, we realize that most of your brain power is used in reciting the 12X12 and using it to defend AA.

  • JD

    Looking over the thread, the OP’s wife’s therapist used it, #13 says his drunk mother-in-law used it, #14 doesn’t use it but say’s he/she has heard it used (shall we take that secondhand?). We then have to go to #51 to find another who’s heard it used but doesn’t use it…I think my point is made, you can track down the rest to see if there are any on the 5 pages that use the term.

    Were what you claim in fact so, we’d see a bunch but they are not there. If you heard it daily in and out of meetings there may be something else going on unique to your circumstance.

    • MA

      Looking over the thread, the OP’s wife’s therapist used it, #13 says his drunk mother-in-law used it, #14 doesn’t use it but say’s he/she has heard it used (shall we take that secondhand?). We then have to go to #51 to find another who’s heard it used but doesn’t use it…I think my point is made, you can track down the rest to see if there are any on the 5 pages that use the term.

      Were what you claim in fact so, we’d see a bunch but they are not there. If you heard it daily in and out of meetings there may be something else going on unique to your circumstance.

      There are two explanations for this, JD. First, like most of AA, this forum is composed of relatively new people to AA. The failure rate is quite high, and you will see that the composition of just about any group is different from what it was six-months earlier. The sheep are simply replaced, sans the lunatic old-timers like yourself (who thrive there). Because there is such a high churn rate, and therefore a high percentage of new AAs in any group, a good percentage will not have heard all of the crazy shit we highlight here. By the time they are exposed to concepts like “dry drunk,” they leave. In fact, it’s ridiculous ideas like this that make people want to leave, or causes them to fail at sobriety, to begin with. 90% of these commenters will be out of AA in a year, and they will, just by having participated in this discussion, heard of a “dry drunk.”

      The second, and I think more common explanation, is they are displaying your patented brand of rigorous honesty™. In other words, they are lying. Like AAs so often lie about not hearing people being manipulated out of taking their prescription medication, or lying about never having seen anyone conned or forced into the program. You are good at pretending the things that happen in AA don’t really happen.

      I can say with certainty that anyone who has been in the program for any decent amount of time has heard this term many times, and those who say they don’t are lying about it. I can also say with the same certainty, that just about anyone in AA has heard the implication that another member is a dry drunk [not really sober] used in different ways. Like when they say, “are you in AA, or around AA?” The implication there being if aren’t neck deep into the program, you don’t have true sobriety.

  • JD, how do you come up with these conclusions? That entire thread is about the “use” of the term “dry drunk”, not if it is being used. It can not be used to determine how often it is used. Steppism often causes these types of warping of the reality of statistical processes and math. I understand that you have meetings to go to and don’t have the time, but you may want to take a refresher course in statistics at a local high school.

  • AllyB

    @ JD – “The AAs usually try to explain there are benefits from understanding our alcoholism, enlarging our world, connecting with reality, making peace with our past, pulling even by setting errors straight, and living a life guided by principles that we’d not ordinarily abide by.”

    I usually try not to get drawn into this, but here goes. Seriously? I have yet to meet (virtually or in the physical world) a single AA who has any interest in understanding alcoholism in any real sense. They are generally extremely rude to anyone who knows any facts. They are beyond dismissive of science. They are highly ignorant, belligerent and often extremely aggressive as soon as someone tries to explain things in physical, biological terms as opposed to with trite, nonsense slogans. The cling to poor anecdotal evidence and half understood fractions of really knowledge. Or 30 year old (ancient in terms of neurochemistry) books that have long been mostly disproved.

    It’s why it’s clear that AA has no place in the recovery movement. It isn’t keeping up. Because it has no interest in keeping up. It has no interest in actually understanding alcoholism. What it is. Why it happens. How to genuinely treat it. AAs and Al-Anons do not want to understand the problem, they do not want to fix it or manage it in the most sensible way. They do not want to get on with their lives. Unlike people with pretty much every affliction the world over.

    People with cancer want it cured so they can get back to living. People with diabetes want to manage their illness in a way that allows them to live the most normal life possible. They don’t want to spend their lives dwelling on their afflictions, talking about it interminably, living in fear of it. They want it treated with the best possible, most advanced medicine available, along with the most up-to-date lifestyle techniques that will keep them healthy. They few who refuse treatment that would help them, who insist “God will fix it,” who rely on prayer instead of understanding, are pitied and vigorously encouraged to rethink their foolishness.

    But with addicts it’s the opposite. In AA the approach of denying modern science is taken and the “treatment” is God. There is no impetus to understand what’s happened to them, no impetus to find the best most effective treatment. And the foolish, so entrenched in their enforced blindness, actually pity those who have genuine understanding of their addiction, are treating it effectively and then getting back to their fulfilling lives.

    JD, you have never shown any understanding of alcoholism on this site. None whatsoever. We know, beyond reasonable doubt, through advanced neurological scanning that alcohol abuse causes serious localised damage to the GABA(b) receptors. We know that it also halts thiamine production. We know that in most cases stopping the alcohol abuse initiates repair, which can complete in 5-10 years. The fully recovered alcoholic’s brain looks no different to that of anyone else’s. We know that initial withdrawal is incredibly, often fatally, dangerous. We know that sugar withdrawal is a factor in early withdrawal but that it should be treated with healthy diet and fructose not foods with lots of processed sugar as that just kicks the can down the road. We know that thiamine supplements are a necessary precautionary measure both when drinking heavily and quitting in order to prevent wernicke’s encephalopathy. We also know that other supplements can help keep someone healthy in ways that will minimise their cravings.

    We now have reason to suspect that a consistent high enough dose of a GABA(b) Agonist will simulate repair of the GABAergic regions, and can be tapered off as the brain repairs itself eliminating cravings. The first large scale, double-blind study is now under way but the preliminary tests have been extremely positive. We also have reason to suspect that a Opoid Receptor Antagonist can be used to slowly eliminate the “pleasure” received in alcohol abuse so that the addict can reduce their alcohol intake slowly and avoid withdrawal. Further tests of this approach are also taking place. As are pharma companies working on creating a GABA(b) Agonist + Opoid Receptor Antagonist in one.

    But none of this can be learned in an AA meeting or on an internet forum for AAs. In fact I’ve seen people get banned from forums when they discuss alternatives. I’ve also seen AA posters proudly state that they ignore anyone who challenges their deeply closed off world view with genuine knowledge. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/225011-ignore-list.html

    AAs have no interest in knowing a damn thing about their addiction and instead belittle and bully those who do.

  • JD

    MA, I note you’ve omitted a 3rd possibility which would also explain the embarassing descrepency I highlighted for you, an explanation for this other than that those good people on all those pages are uniformly lying or that they are all only 5 minutes sober. As if those 2 explainations are the only possible reasons. I can help out here with a 3rd, one that is fresh and very useful in practically every quandry you try to puzzle your way through in reaching some very odd resolutions regarding things you have little experience with in AA.

    That you are wrong. Odd that you’d continually overlook that.

  • Given the fact that he sample population of the thread in question is not randomly picked and has nothing to do with the frequency of the use of the term “dry drunk” by people in AA, why are you trying to use it to prove that people don’t use that term JD?

  • MikeAugustine

    I heard the term used a lot during my 16 years attending meetings. Another related term used by old timers who don’t like other old timers is: ‘I don’t want what he has’.

    Case closed. Judgement handed down. Is the coffee ready yet?

  • SoberPJ

    JD.. there are three fingers pointing back at ya bub. You are wrong. Odd that you’d continually overlook that.

  • Rick045

    JD wrote – (in response to my earlier post) – Or, is it more true that is is hardly ever brought up by AAs? Shall we deal with reality as it’s experienced by the many or shall things be discussed only in reference to your amplified sensitivities?

    I described what I witnessed in meetings and during my interactions with AAs. A purely anecdotal account, just as your original comment was. I made no attempt to speak for “the many” in that particular post.

  • When I had been sober for a few months I knew my thinking was still somewhat off but not enough to consider myself a dry drunk. I knew in time that would change and it has. As I looked around at the people in AA some with 20 years in and out of the program and none with any major sober time. I thougt no way in hell will I subject myself to this type of thinkining and I have not.

  • DeConstructor

    Hasthe AA organization ever come up with an actual definition of a ‘dry drunk’? I think we have one in the AAdictionary.

    I am guessing our definition may be different from theirs.

    As far as JD commenting that the term is ‘hardly ever brought up’, I guess that would be the same as ‘rarely’ as in ‘rarely have we seen a person fail…’ I think the term is widely used, and used as a biting, personal, derogatory slur towards people who do not drink but do not accept the standard dogma and theology of the AA faith.

  • tintop

    JD, you are full of shit.
    The only reason that you remain is that MA and ftg have decided that ST wants a village idiot.
    You, JD. You, JD, are the village idiot of ST.
    Thank MA and ftg for the the honor of being the official fool of ST.

  • In relation to old timers who don’t like other old timers, what other debasing terms do they tell newcomers about thier fellow old timer members? I seem to remember things like “don’t listen to him he’s not a real Alcoholic”, “he’s not following a good program”, etc……

    Of course they are only doing this in the name of “fellowship” and are not trying to become “king of the roost” or get a bigger following than the other members of the fellowship. It is very easy to see they are being humble. I believe a study is deserved on the actual power struggles and tactics used by AA members against each other who are in good standing because of thier sobriety date.

  • AllyB

    I see it all the time on the SR family board. All the Al Anon’s who’s loved one is not drinking but not in AA refer to them as dry drunks.

    Variants of this theme are especially common – “My dry drunk husband doesn’t like me going to Al Anon and sulks when I tell him how much I need MY PROGRAMME. He hasn’t had a drink in 2 years so he thinks I shouldn’t keep going there. But he doesn’t understand that I have to keep going there because he is a dry drunk who doesn’t work any programme. I keep telling him to join AA but he thinks that not drinking should be enough.”

  • JRH I enjoyed watching old timers slug it out in a slogan fight to the finish. MY favorite was stick with the winners.

  • Lucy

    JD –

    “Though hardly ever brought up by AAs” =Bullshit

    “Dry Drunk” – AA members made up the phrase and, unless things have radically changed since August 2010, it is still being used every day.

    Saying something you wish was true does not make it true. It makes it a lie.

    Had you said, “I don’t use that phrase because I don’t like it.” you might have credibility. But you didn’t.

    And that is the problem in a nutshell. When an AA member doesn’t like an unpleasant truth, he says that the circumstances were an anomaly, that it really doesn’t happen, and that we don’t know enough about AA to know that so he will educate us.

    Bullshit is bullshit.

  • tintop

    The term, “dry drunk” is a nonsense. It does not exist outside AA.
    When a drunkard quits drinking, he is no longer a drunkard.

  • Disclosure

    JD,
    Here are some direct questions for you from someone who is in AA and sober for over 15 years.

    If the methods found in AA are unobjectionable, why are there so many dissatisfied, hurt, and offended people here who dedicate their time to the discussion in the hope of bringing change?

    Some of these people are long time members who come here because they were hurt by the program while others are highly educated individuals who after attending just one meeting became profoundly offended.

    Please don’t take this next question wrong JD.

    How many years of sobriety in AA do you have?

    I ask this not to marginalize you, but to bring up another point. Many of the people who leave AA and come to this site in the hopes of educating those seeking help have long term sobriety. If you are in your first 10 to 20 years you may not have reached the point where you become aware of any potential for damage in AA.

    Lastly; many of the people who frequent this site were either long time attendees in AA or went to one meeting and were profoundly offended. In both cases the attendee left the group without any help or referral to other recovery resources.

    As someone in AA this bothers me. I do not want anyone who goes or is sent to AA to leave offended, disguised, hurt, abused, confused, or abandon.

    How can you ignore that that the people who frequent this site were failed or damaged by AA?

    As an AA member I know that AA needs to change its core program or the courts and hospitals need to take it off their list of abuse treatments. I would testify to this under oath in front of a grand jury. Why are you opposed to this notion? I have seen you loose your credibility many times on this blog. I do not expect plausible answers or constructive discussion from you at this point.

    I present this as an opportunity for you to redeem yourself.

  • JD in order to help you get over the case of advanced Steppism which has effected your mind and reasoning capabilities. I have to wonder why you are even trying to use statistics or polls since you do not even believe in filling them out or the hard numbers they prove.

    JD says April 30, 2011

    “We don’t do surveys in my group JR, and any that come in are tossed. The other decent groups I know of do the same. Nobody’s business, and we’re not concerned with anyone’s hot desires for hard numbers or responses.”

    http://stinkin-thinkin.com/keep-coming-back/comment-page-3/#comments

    This was only 3 days ago??????………… If you can’t get help at ST, please get help somewhere.

  • Mona Lisa

    Disclosure asks JD: “How can you ignore that that the people who frequent this site were failed or damaged by AA?”

    Disclosure, the answer seems clear enough to me. JD views us as dry drunks, so we don’t matter.

  • tintop

    mona Lisa, JD is the village idiot. He means nothing
    The term dry drunk exists only in AA.

  • Lucy

    That quotation by JD about the surveys would indicate that either he wasn’t sober in the early 1990s, or his group does not comply with the GSO office requests.

    Disclosure, I have often wondered whether JD is one of the guys that skims the edges of AA. I hear the jargon but not of the actual fact of the literature, meetings or fellowship. I have met lots of those people – they know enough to consider themselves experts but what they are really just parrots who repeat what they have heard other people say.

  • speedy0314

    all,

    much ado about nothing. ‘dry drunks’ do not exist; the term is an oxymoron. as just about everyone on this site knows, AA tends to err on the side of the moronic.

    getting lathered up about tired, dumbass AA-ese is really kind of a waste of energy. when you’re focussing on an isolated incidence of ’12-Step culture’ then it must be a slow news day when it comes to “muckraking the 12-Step industry”.

    really — who gives a s**t?

    two cents,

    speedy

  • You have to understand we are doing this to help someone afflicted with Steppism. It is not his fault he was born that way. His problems with Steppism are affecting many people around him and are very destructive. The only way he can be cured is through complete abstinence. We didn’t ask him to come here and he was not court ordered, so he can leave at any time. Yet he realizes he has a problem, so he keeps coming back for more treatment. We can’t just turn our backs on someone afflicted with the terrible disease of Steppism.

  • MikeAugustine

    My name is james, I’m a dry drunk. Shaken, but not stirred.

  • speedy0314

    @ MikeAugustine:

    exactly.

    speedy

  • Pogue Mahone
  • I can find no clinical definition of a dry drunk either. But at the top of my searches I did find this definition from a Stepper trying to identify who can be identified as one. Looking at the list, anyone who is in AA is classified as a “Dry Drunk” at some time or another and most likely for life:

    Dry drunk symptoms

    – Frequent anger outbursts (I’m sure no one been told they were “angry” at an AA meeting)
    – Self-pity (you don’t need self-pity in AA, you just pity other people)
    – Resentment about being classed as an addict (Step one tells you you have to admit this, if you don’t join AA your a Dry Drunk)
    – Denial about the extent of their former addiction problems (Step one again)
    – Secretive behavior (Unsure, they do call it Alcoholics ANONYMOUS)
    – Isolating themselves from other people (They do tell you to hang around other AA’s and stay away from Normie’s.)
    – Manipulative behavior (Isn’t that what the Big Book teaches you?)
    – Blaming (Don’t AA’s blame thier problem on Alcohol, up bringing, thier 1st drink.)
    – Looking for evidence that they can drink safely again (Your not doing a good program if you do that, so don’t even think you can become a Normie)
    – Spending time in bars in an attempt to recapture the “good old days” (this one may be true, that is why they isolate you from normie’s which is why the isolation part doesn’t fit)
    – Romancing the drink – thinking about the good times drinking (Isn’t that what they do during “shares”)
    – Losing interest in hobbies (The main hobby you have is meetings and BB study)
    – Constantly complaining about recovery (I don’t know how many people I have heard tell me about the struggle they are having in the rooms)

    Looking at this list, everyone is a “Dry Drunk”, maybe it should be considered an honor and people should say “Thank You” when that are identified as such.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2599947/understanding_dry_drunk_syndrome_and.html?cat=5

  • humanspirit

    @AllyB – Brilliant post of May 3, 2011, 5:30 am .

    You’ve hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly why 12-step evangelists are so bad for alcoholics and do more harm than good – they are, as you say, not remotely interested in understanding the problem nor trying to provide any real solutions. I was even shouted down by a stepper for suggesting that alcoholism might have a psychological cause in many cases, as psychology = “science” and was therefore a threatening idea to the programme. They just do not want to know the facts and are downright hostile to those who really do try to understand and explore the issues. Which might be OK, perhaps, if they didn’t inflict this absolute lunacy on genuine, vulnerable people seeking help for a very real and often life-threatening condition. I don’t know what “principles” are supposed to be involved in all this (steppers go on about “principles” all the time without actually saying what they are) but they certainly aren’t moral ones.

  • BusBozo

    MA & AllyB:
    Kudos for your excellent posts. My later years in AA found me cringing when I heard guys like JD share. When they sneered at any mention of science, or psychology. Nope, by gum, we knows what we knows, and we knows AA works. So ya all keep coming back, ya hear?

  • AllyB

    Weird day here. I just found out that the partner of a particular Al-Anon person who I was very much thinking about when I wrote that earlier has relapsed. I feel awful for this person, well in fact the whole family. I’d like to offer my sympathy and even support but I know it would be badly received.

    I don’t want to come across like the type of AA who is quite pleased to here about relapses, but I wasn’t overly surprised by the news as at best this has been a twice yearly cycle for about 8 years. A huge part of me wants to suggest that they actually consider that what they’ve tried doesn’t work. And maybe it’s time to research alternatives, to find the right fit for this person. But I know it won’t go down well and don’t want to make someone who I know is hurting right now feel under attack. 🙁

  • humanspirit

    @AllyB

    The only people who crow about others relapsing are, in my experience, steppers. The rest of us know what a truly devastating thing this can be for the individual and their friends/family and would not wish that on anyone, whether that person is in AA or not, or whether they are someone we disagree with on every level. It’s no comfort, when this happens, to know that you were right all along to recognize that this programme does not offer any lasting solution for alcoholics, and you’re right that pointing out the obvious truth that it just isn’t working won’t win you any friends among the AA/Al-anon faithful at this moment.

    I am so sorry to hear about this, but also angry that AA has twisted so many needy people’s thinking into believing that it really is the only way, even when it fails again and again, and furthermore has persuaded people that they should not seek any other solution that might actually work for them. They are told to disbelieve the evidence of their own experience, even though relapse is probably the most common experience for those in AA. Perhaps this is something you can suggest in future to your Al-anon friend, even if not right at this moment? ( I couldn’t say, not knowing your relationship with this particular person. ) Whatever, this is bad news, and it’s such a shame that the support and advice of someone like you, who has been through it all herself, is likely to be unwelcome because you can see that there are definitely much more promising alternatives out there.

  • causeandeffect

    AllyB, that was an excellent post!!! I would only add the benefits of exercise and endorphins. In fact the only time I ever heard any cross talk in a meeting was when an old timer immediately shut down someone who mentioned it. How dare you mention something that’s not in the big book of lies and ignorance. I see JD conveniently ignore your post.

    Yes, JR. Even though the term dry drunk so frequently used in AA is a nonsensical oxymoron, it’s definition definitely applies to the people in the rooms. It’s the natural consequence of a society who considers aberrant thoughts and behaviors to be normal, and normal thoughts and behaviors to be aberrant. The biggest problem is that the power of suggestion eventually gets to people who leave without fully deprogramming. Their aberrant behavior that they believe they are supposed to have eventually becomes worse.

    @ speedy, it’s a very valid and necessary part of the deprogramming process to challenged the “tired, dumbass AA-ese” (and I don’t feel lathered) 🙂

  • Jonny Quest

    This one from SoberRecovery “Concept of Powerlessness” thread is good:

    Question from Supercrew:
    “Just a hypothetical question. If you suddenly found out through some scientific discovery tomorrow that there was no such thing as your HP of your own choosing, would you automatically go back to drinking?”

    RESPONSE (from boleo):
    “In my case, I am sure I would. I never did learn how to quit drinking. My sobriety is a byproduct of being spiritually fit. If there were no spiritual power in the universe, I would have no clue how to not drink. Not drinking has nothing to do with why I am sober today.”

    Full Thread:

    http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism/226439-concept-powerlessness.html

  • SoberPJ

    too loud for words – “Not drinking has nothing to do with why I am sober today”

    Not only are AA’s delusion, some are really stupid.

  • BusBozo

    JQ
    Thanks.
    boleo is certainly a good fit for AA. Just think, he probably sponsors others, and gets plenty of nodding heads when he shares such nonsense.

    • MA

      Oh yes. Boleo. He’s a treasure. We’ve quoted him here before.

      He’s a poster boy for what this blog is about.

  • Mona Lisa

    Yes, that quote is really a classic. Check out the thread, though: someone called him on his BS.