Keep Coming Back!

(hat-tip:  hulahoop)

Why do “our betters”… I mean,  AA members protect the anonymity of child molesters and rapists? Who benefits from that policy?

Rapist: Lifelong Restriction Order

ROBERT Foye, 31, raped a 16-year-old girl in Cumbernauld in 2007 while on the run from an open prison.

He was serving a ten-year sentence for the attempted murder of a policeman and had been allowed out of Castle Huntly open prison, Tayside, to attend an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

He had been sent to the open prison after serving five years for driving at a detective, despite being classed as at high risk of reoffending and having previously gone on the run from jail.
Two police forces were involved in the attempt to track him down but six days after he was reported missing, Foye attacked the teenager in Cumbernauld.

The judge in the rape case decided Foye was so dangerous that he should receive an order for lifelong restriction, under which he could be detained until the parole board deemed it safe to free him.

The court heard that Foye had planned the sex attack for some time and prepared a “rape kit” to help subdue his victim.

It was also told that he had been guilty of a previous sex attack committed when he was 15, although all of those claims were denied by his defence QC, Paul McBride.

Foye was told that he must serve at least nine years before the parole board could consider him for release.

  • AntiDenial

    OMG! This is such a global problem. AA/NA are fully aware of these risks and do NOTHING to protect the other people attending the meeting. I want to find more stories like this in the US to prove our case. WTH are they thinking? I guess they are not!
    People can be on community control-not allowed out of the house-BUT they can go to AA/NA meetings without anyone at the meetings realizing the history of the person.
    This is horrible!

  • humanspirit

    An absolutely sickening story. But it’s also inexplicable – what were the parole officers doing letting him out go to AA meetings at all? Presumably after over five years in prison he can’t have been drinking, in fact he’d probably been pretty well sober for all of that time (OK, I know it’s possible to get hold of alcohol in prison, but I wouldn’t have thought this happened enough for anyone to be regarded as an active alcoholic.) Did the people in this prison think he needed AA because he was suffering from an incurable disease that forced him to do terrible things, and that it would mean he would learn to live a “spiritual” life? There MUST have been some stepper in the prison service behind this.

    It’s also a mystery as to why he was ever transferred to an open prison despite being seen as having a high risk of re-offending. Was he clever enough to convince the stepperish tendencies in the prison that he was a reformed character because he pretended to be open to the 12 steps?

    Whatever, I hope the steppers or AA dupes who let him do this never sleep at night again when they think of the irreparable damage done to this young girl’s life.

  • Martha

    “Whatever, I hope the steppers or AA dupes who let him do this never sleep at night again when they think of the irreparable damage done to this young girl’s life.”

    That is too much to hope for. They will just chalk it up to “God’s will.” turn it over and not learn a damn thing.

  • Disgusting! I got up at at GS Regional Meeting where 9 states were represented and let it rip about Predators in AA. There were other members who chimed in. I gave out 175 pamphlets. Many members agree its a big problem, needs to be addressed.
    Got a few dirty looks from some creepy looking men, but I DONT CARE>

    Im getting ready to move on though.

    OH BTW, the FBI is getting involved in HAWAII AA cause a women there was forging checks from their district. She was a previous criminal I guess! hmmm what a lovely bunch.

    I keep meaning to call the FBI about AA in SOUTHERN CALI with Sexual Predators.

    A woman on the plane next to me saw me reading Amy Lee Coy’s “From Death DO I Part” book, and revealed to me she needs help with her drinking but she felt “dirty” when she left a meeting and that it didn’t help her, …we were so excited to talk… and that the guys were so hitting on the young woman! She sometimes think of going back but she didnt like all the Predators she saw.
    She has been attending WFS Women For Sobriety, but needs more. I told her about Smart, about me and my MAke AA safer stuff, how sick I am of it all, she was so excited as I told her about Amy’s story.

    Amy needs to do A book tour. Gotta figure a way to help her. Amy’s book should be in every airport Book store. Anyone have connections??

    Someone brought up Kristine Cass’s Murder too. It was really powerful what this man shared.
    I could not have asked someone to end the discussion better then how he put it and how dangerous AA has become.

    A new day is dawning…I can see it …we here on ST are making change and spreading the word…

    meeting this woman who sat right next to me in coach on a hugh plane that was packed, talk to me about her struggles with alcohol was so powerful and timely.

  • KellyRyan

    I love and appreciate what you are doing massive. I tried so hard five years ago to get AA’s attention through service work and couldn’t. I needed to take another path. The last women’s meeting I attended was in Oceanside, California and a woman with over 20 years spoke of being raped at 15 in AA San Luis Obispo. I was already aware of Clancy and Mike Q, through those who knew them in AA.

    There was a story in the North County Times of a predator/pedophile in Escondido who they discovered was attending AA meetings. Unfortunately, it appears as if the article wasn’t archived, (2005?)

    And there is the case of Rabbi Neulander and Len Jenoff of New Jersey. Neulander found Jenoff through AA and hired him to murder his wife. Both were convicted.

    I wonder if Amy blogging on Huff Po is an option.

  • causeandeffect

    Kelly, have you seen massiveattack’s site? It’s just over to the right under blog roll. Stop 13th step in AA. And she has a documentary. I lost the link. We all love her so much for all she’s doing.

    It’s unconscionable that they would let this guy be in an open prison, much less leave it to attend an AA meeting. Yes, a stepper must have been behind it. It’s an extension of the idea that people drink solely because they are immoral, and were born immoral, and that the steps and gawd somehow reverse such a situation. It doesn’t.

    At first I thought AA was so great because people were working on themselves and could therefore be trusted. Too many dead brain cells I guess.

  • flannigan

    Leave prison to go to an AA meeting? Gives a whole new slant to “keep coming back”, doesn’t it?

  • AntiDenial

    it is actually happening more than people realize.
    They are people on work release too that go to outside meetings.
    As long as they feel ANY crime was drug related-they send them to
    AA/NA/CA. Of course as we know this includes sexual predators.
    You can call the probation officers in your district and ask them
    yourselves. Also the public defender is also very aware of the conditions
    put on their clients. They can also be a source to contact to have them know of the alternatives-and ask the judge for them.

  • AntiDenial

    @ massive attack WOW! That is REALLY brave to go up in front of all those reps
    and talk about what you did. Will they have minutes on this?
    You are awesome!

  • AndyM

    massive attack
    I probably don’t need to tell you this, but do be ready to jump ship soon. These people are quite organised. My hat is off 2 U!!!

  • Mike

    I got kind of good at spotting offenders my last couple of years in the program. The violent ones are usually tattooed, in fairly good shape and look like they can handle themselves. The sex predators tend to be middle-aged, pot bellied and short in stature. Shucks, I think I just described the majority of male attendees. Oh well.

  • nukefreekiwi

    The shit these nuts do still continues to shock me. I thought i had become blase about the debauched depravities of 12 step lunatics yet some nut comes along and reaffirms any flagging doubts i may have had about the true character of 12 step membership.

    Is there a wall of shame or a dedicated page where all these cases are compiled? Like many forum members, I have long suspected that 12 step meetings have a disproportionate number of unsavoury characters but it would be interesting to peruse a page which is chocka-full of 12 step moral/criminal indiscretions( understatement ,i know).

  • kiwi, if you look under the post, in the category list, you’ll see a link called “Keep Coming Back” — click that and you’ll see the wall-o-shame. It started on a whim, really. I started noticing how many stories there were of AA members being stopped for DIU and being sentenced to more AA. I started tagging these stories “keep coming back” more consistently after a while, and now they include these DIUs, but also stories like this that highlight how anonymity is absolutely incompatible with criminal mandates.

    Did the courts think to warn the meetings in the area that this violent criminal might drop by? Are predators ever required to make themselves accountable in AA, like predators are outside of AA? And why do members within AA tolerate this/pretend its not happening and encourage children to attend?

  • Martha

    It seems that it is not uncommon for members of religions to watch each others backs no matter how much evil they do. :

    “PHILADELPHIA — Three weeks after a scathing grand jury report accused the Philadelphia Archdiocese of providing haven for as many as 37 priests who have been credibly accused of sexual abuse or inappropriate behavior toward minors, most of those priests remain active in the ministry.”

  • Dick B.

    For a contrarian view espousing the importance of A.A. and its history, check out the website

    ***Dick, we aren’t an advertising platform for your propaganda***
    – MA

  • AndyM

    It’s really sad and a dark stain on the reputation of the Roman Catholic church that it still hides paedophile priests in positions where they can cause further harm to children, rather than properly facing this issue, admitting accountability and handing such perpetrators over to the police. I say this as a baptised Catholic. This is no new problem. It has been endemic and institutionalised for centuries. On this subject the following is a fascinating read:

  • Ben Franklin


  • nukefreekiwi

    @FTG. Thanks for that. I thought there must have been somewhere on the forum where all this stuff was being recorded.

  • I watched a program on Scottish killers last night this man killed 12 men (1980s)cut up there bodies flushed the flesh down the toilet and disposed of the bones, drinking was a big part of it but was not the cause of what he had done . People that commit crimes should not be allowed out to attend public meetings they have these sick tendoncies anyway . When I first came into AA I was told by my soon to be sponsor next job would be to do prison duties why the hell would I want to do that I have 4 little children at home who would put someone in my position in that sort of work . Aye keep coming back .

  • AndyM

    Yes, it’s crazy and extremely dangerous to treat such people as though their primary problem is alcoholism and send them anonymously to aa. A similar case to the one you cited was that of Denis Nielson, who also cut up young men and tried to flush the parts down the toilet. He was caught because the drains of the shared occupancy house where he lived had to be unblocked. He only seems to have acted out his macabre psychopathic script when disinhibited by alcohol, but it would be pretty stupid to say his main problem was alcoholism.

  • AndyM

    Luckily Nielson didn’t find the rooms of aa. Otherwise I think the death toll could have been higher.

  • AndyM
    It was Denis Neilson just couldn’t remember the name scary stuff .

  • DeConstructor

    I would like to state for the record, as I used to be a plumber in a previous life, do not try to flush peoples bodies down the toilet, no matter how small the pieces.

    It is wrong on a multitude of levels, there are things that just should not be flushed. 🙂

  • AndyM

    There’s a good book about Nielson, but you need a strong stomach to read it all. I gave up on my first attempt. It’s called “Killing for Company” but I can’t remember the author offhand. Nielson is a gay necrophiliac (though perhaps “gay” is something of a misnomer in his case!) He is thought to have done things sexually with his dead victims, but even more creepily he sat the bodies in armchairs to watch TV with them and brought them cups of tea. He also did sketches of them. Actually, considering he never took lessons, he wasn’t a bad artist, though I don’t think many people would want to hang them on the wall. He worked at the Department of Health and Social Security, which is where he met some of his victims.

  • DeConstrutor
    I’ll keep that in mind think I’ll pass on the book too AndyM that was enough for me just watching the program .

  • AntiDenial

    DCF needs to get involved. I was told that in some states DCF does not allow meetings they hold to allow children in adult meetings and also have background checks on the people
    who run the sessions for minors-makes sense. If they have demonstrated an awareness within-why are they dropping the ball on outside AA/NA meetings?

  • KellyRyan

    With a few comments on priests and sexual abuse, those who might find it of interest, Amy Berg’s film, Deliver Us from Evil, on Fr O’Grady, pedophile priest, is an excellent documentary.

  • Sugomom
  • Sugomom

    Maybe they should use this on rapists instead of school children

  • AndyM