Quote of the Day

Sugomom just quoted this from a forum, and I thought it was of such quality, that it deserved to be highlighted here:

“I would much rather date a woman who didn’t drink than one who did. If a person gets drunk, or has ever gotten drunk, then they are an alcoholic. If they are in a 12 step program and taking rigorous moral inventory as well as prayer, then I would date them. If they are just drinking alcohol and getting drunk, I would drive them to an AA meeting to help them on their way to a stronger spiritual connection with their higher power.

I would much rather date a woman who had an extremely strong spiritual connection to her higher power than an atheist who is constantly inserting her ego into every issue.

Egotists drink alcohol, that’s the honest truth. People drink alcohol to avoid Life. If you are lucky enough to find a person in a 12 step program, do not interfere with their meetings or spiritual practice. That is the one thing that you cannot do, they will leave you in a second over a meeting. You ever cause them to miss a meeting and you will be gone within hours if not minutes. That is critical to understand.”

  • DeConstructor

    This dude must be the life of the party. I assume he is a member of the AA faith, as he is using their terminology and dogma.

    It would be worse if he was not a member, as it again would confirm the unearned admiration and undeserved credibility bestowed on the AA faith by society.

    I do not want what this person has.

  • http://duischooltruth.wordpress.com JR Harris

    Well if you can get addicted to alcohol, then change that for an addiction to AA meetings, isn’t it possible to change it to an addiction to life? Life should consist of more than sitting around telling everyone how bad you have been, over and over again. I think if you found other things to do, that can take the place of both of these, it would be a much more beneficial to your well being.

    One of the questions they always ask you when you are being assessed for Substance abuse is: “Do you have any hobbies?” It is believed that if you do not, you have given them up for the hobby of substance abuse, and it is one of the warning signs that you need help. Could it be that they are trying to give you a hobby of AA meetings? Maybe they should suggest something else.

  • tintop

    This sort of thing is to be expected of that subculture. It is one reason why so many people leave; that sort of arrogant judgementalism is not conducive to mature relationships with others.

    I do not want what this person has either.

  • causeandeffect

    “If a person gets drunk, or has ever gotten drunk, then they are an alcoholic.”
    Ever? What a desperate attempt to fill the meetings! Sounds like somebody is experiencing the churn. LOL!

  • AndyM

    If someone has ever been drunk they are an alcoholic? That’s ludicrous.

  • Martha

    “Egotists drink alcohol, that’s the honest truth”

    People with no ego and no self awareness thrive in AA.

  • http://none violet

    deconstructor says: “This dude must be the life of the party.” Yep.

  • zooromeo

    this is a good argument for enforced euthanasia

  • Lucy

    I’m with ZooRomeo.

  • Johnny Crash NYC

    I would never date someone in recovery been there done that …. its impossible to have a sucessfull relationship when you have a sponsor a sponsee and 100 pathetic loosers in your shit … I dont want what they haave either … and having a healthy ego and build self esteem well since when is that bad? …. I bet all the tea in tijuana this dude is a total 13 stepping predetor … I sure bet he love a nice little obiedient 17 year old since he can.t get away with his crap on an earth person …. oh yeah 9 monyhs cult free today life is good

  • french

    Wow. Just wow. That’s just gold right there.

  • tintop

    That sort of remark is typical of that subculture.

  • MA

    “If you are lucky enough to find a person in a 12 step program….”

    I’m sure you gals always dreamed of hooking up with a doctor, or someone in a 12-Step program.

  • http://iloveeli violet

    you said it, ma.

  • http://iloveeli violet

    johnny crash, i am almost most a year… though i did “cheat” and go to a few alanons this summer, plus one aa. but i went knowing that i was not “in” anymore. this blog has helped like you would not believe. great job on your awesome nine months.

  • http://iloveeli violet

    oops. ^

  • zooromeo

    Yeah, If you are “lucky enough to find a person” in a straight jacket…

    sheeesh !!

    PS – It doesnt work if you work it…

  • DeConstructor

    This individual needs to look for others with the sign of the beast.

    http://xxtattoo-junkiexx.deviantart.com/art/serenity-prayer-tattoo-131812567

  • causeandeffect

    “You ever cause them to miss a meeting and you will be gone within hours if not minutes. That is critical to understand.”

    This is a disturbing statement. We’ve all heard something similar in meetings. Steppers always remain so insecure. Ever poised with their hand just an inch from the bottle. Always fearing they will drink tomorrow. Always thinking it’s more important to trust others than to trust themselves. Always married to that really bad relationship with alcohol. Always wondering if they are doing the checklist just right in order to fend off the demon drink. “Oh, I missed a meeting, what do I need to do to make up for it?”

    I’m glad I trust myself. I feel so sorry for them.

  • hulahoop

    Wow! I want to ask if this guy is really serious about what he is saying. I know from personal experience he is. Especially this part – If you are lucky enough to find a person in a 12 step program, do not interfere with their meetings or spiritual practice. That is the one thing that you cannot do, they will leave you in a second over a meeting. You ever cause them to miss a meeting and you will be gone within hours if not minutes. That is critical to understand.”

    What he should have said is if you are unfortunate enough to be with someone when they discover AA and swallow the kool-aid, you are OUT. AA becomes their new life. They will have new instant friends, instant religion, and an entire new life that no longer involves you. AA will replace everything and everyone that gave ever gave a shit about them when they were actually drinking unless it is people praising them on their newfound ability of not drinking. Most of their friends and loved ones will not attend the first AA meeting. They will go around singing the praises of AA saying, “It worked for my cousin, sister, daughter, son, mom, dad, uncle, brother, aunt…” Yeah, it worked for them alright.

    The person in AA won’t even give you a second thought because you are a perceived threat to their sobriety especially if you don’t the swallow the kool-aid yourself or you voice an objection to it. Or even ask questions about it. Yep, you were totally wonderful and fit the bill until they discovered AA. Then it was to the curb for you because they needed to work on themselves and build spirituality to work a better program. Their new sponsor won’t like you either.

    Egotists drink alcohol, that’s the honest truth. People drink alcohol to avoid Life.

    I do and must totally disagree with this statement. I was a bartender for many, many years. I saw a lot of ego displayed due to alcohol during those years. I never saw as much ego as openly displayed in my life as I saw in my few months of attending AA meetings. It is almost like you either you have too much of it or not enough of it at AA.

    Egotists haunt the halls of AA flaunting their sobriety trying to make others believe they have something everyone else wants when they know they have nothing at all but time. Egotists love being a big fish in a small pond. They know nobody else in the real world would put up with their shit except for at AA meetings. Egotists love being love bombed and applauded for. Egotists love giving their drunkalogue over and over again. It doesn’t matter to them if most of the people in the room don’t want to hear it. There is one person in the room that has never heard it. That is all they care about at that moment.

    No doubt people use alcohol to avoid real life. Then some of them discover meetings. They use the meetings the same way they used alcohol. And for a lot of them the high they get from meetings is a lot better than the high they received from alcohol. Someone is FINALLY paying attention to them.

    From what I can see, it is a lazy, lame ass program. I don’t see AA members actually doing anything to help anyone but at other AA members in some misguided way. I don’t see them doing anything for anyone unless it benefits AA in some way. “You must give it away to keep it” really means you won’t remain sober unless you are benefiting and furthering the cause of AA.

  • causeandeffect

    Oh gawd DeCon, you just reminded me of the girl with the tattoo on her side. Thanks a lot!

  • DeConstructor

    @ C&E
    ‘Ever poised with their hand just an inch from the bottle. Always fearing they will drink tomorrow’

    Or perhaps a very convenient excuse anytime they choose to have a yummy ‘relapse’ or a convenient excuse should they run someone over in their car when their ‘disease’ has ‘relapsed’

  • BusBozo

    “I would much rather date a woman who had an extremely strong spiritual connection to her higher power than an atheist who is constantly inserting her ego into every issue.”

    Thy will not mine….B.Wilson

    This is probably one of those clowns who sneer when he talks about “normies” You know, the kind who aren’t “spiritually connected” as are the pious AAers. Boy, the world would be so much better if EVERYONE was in a 12 step program. Of course, then the special feelings one gets from a cult would no longer apply.
    Whoops…I’m taking his inventory, not keeping my side of the street clean, three fingers pointing back, geez.

  • eddy

    An interesting world view. Alcohol is bad, people who drink alcohol are bad, people who do not believe in god are bad.

    Good people don’t drink, good people are spiritual, spiritual is connected with a religion{12 step cult}

    This person has no awareness , sees the world in rigid black and white terms, holds a rigid world view, my guess is quite anxious and cannot handle differences. In all likelhood has embraced a 12 step cult religion,

  • http://stop13stepinaa@wordpress.com massiveattack

    A Sub Culture of 12 step groups mentality have undermined our society and weakened our integrity. Powerless or empowered. I want to be empowered.

    I seriously doubt that AA founders really wanted everyone to think they were powerless over everything. But I was not there to really know the answer to that question. But we can see what has evolved. And it’s not good.

    This is absurd. Although I know that Tom Powers from All Addicts Anonymous dealt with Sex in a way that he and Bill disagreed on. Bill W went on to be a massive 13 stepper. I don’t want to get into that now.

    I want to discuss this crazy ideoligy that is an AA Religion, but that has sadly seeped into our current culture.

    Maybe this is why Agape church got so big. Maybe this is why “The Secret” sold millions. Why Eackart Tolle’s book sold millions. Not that Oprah didnt help.

    People who are still lost but sober are looking for some sort of way to deal with the fact that AA and its punitive philosophy and powerless, negative labeling keeps one’s self esteem low forever. Unless you see it, achknowledge it and do massive other work to change your core belief system. Which I did.

    It’s unfortunate when I see really smart women come into the rooms nowadays and cock there heads to the side like a puppy. Saying I just don’t get this powerless sh*&^%T.

    I gave in and watched “Shameless” on SHowtime tonight. I get the distinct feeling we are headed for Bill Macy’s character getting sober in season 2 or 3. Let me puke now. The show has all the trappings of some sober writers own personal bad behavior that surrounded his drinking. Oh and let me guess, and I am just guessing, after he got sober he is still an ass.

  • JD

    I suspect this is yet another planted post, much like the BB question you slyly admitted being responsible for in the ‘Suggestions’ thread. I don’t follow the logic of writing these out and then showcasing them as examples of the poor thinking of others who had nothing to do with them here, but then it’s been a long time since I was in the 5rd grade.

    As if writing something nutty out and posting it, something that no one in their right minds would do and then assigning resposibility for it to others holds any meaning at all. For ST members to then get excited and indulge in dissecting the imaginary post that you generated under false pretences is a really strange set of practices.

    If you could describe the thrill you derive from doing this, perhaps I could understand. In the ‘Suggestions’ thread the veiled admission of responsibility for the posting of imaginary problems the imaginary person was having was surprising to me, I’d no idea things here had become so bizarre.

  • MA

    JD – The great thing about lampooning AA is, we don’t have to make these things up. You folks make it too easy. Hell, your comments alone would be enough to keep me in stitches for a month or two.

  • http://duischooltruth.wordpress.com JR Harris

    Save an Alcoholic, plant a post today!

  • http://deleted Primrose

    Flip. Are we allowed to quote cultists? Can we share online lunacies?

  • causeandeffect

    JD, when are you going to start writing your own posts again?

  • http://deleted Primrose

    If we can quote rambling nonsense from cult website, can I contribute, too?
    On a slightly related matter, (that of deprogramming someone), is there anyway I can view the posts of one or more people. I would very much like the collected posts of AZ, ML and Martha in one handy booklet. I would also be grateful if those people would ‘befriend’ me.

  • http://www.the-alcoholism-guide.org Charles Somer

    I can well imagine this is a ‘genuine’ (whatever that means) post on an AA forum site. I have seen way worse.

    I used AA/NA to get dry and clean and am eternally grateful that there was a support group there for me in my time of need. I used the group in my own way while managing to fend off the 12 steps and getting a sponsor (with much difficulty, mind you) until I had the strength to go it alone.

    I have moved on now. I just can’t abide the unquestioning, sanctimonious, arrogant monkey poo (?!) that some AA members spout. If people love AA and it works for them then that’s cool. But this quote above makes me mad and I just can’t hold off having a go………….

    Following as gospel the ranting of, let’s be honest, a couple of 1930′s drunks is, how can I put this, COMPLETELY INSANE.

    Bill W. and Dr.Bob…..sound like a couple of bad rap artists

  • tintop

    Well said, Charles.
    AA can be used as a support group. It is quite possible to do that. The 12 steps are unnecessary, and a sponsor is unnecessary.
    And, moving on is quite possible as well.

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    I don’t want there to be any question about this:

    No one from this blog planted that question in the Suggestions thread on SoberRecovery. We only thought it looked as if someone might have been trolling. The responses, however, were enormously revealing, and the responders are entirely responsible for what they express. They didn’t say anything out of the ordinary, either.

    Similarly, no one from this blog planted the above quote. Sugomom found it fair and square. In fact, maybe we should all head out right now and gather some 12 Stepper quotes, with links back to their sources.

    Thanks for the inspiration, JD!

    Ready? Go!

  • http://iloveeli violet

    FTG, is 6:28 am your time? Man, you’re up early. I really would love to comment on the SR thread but it takes so effing long to create an account. I know, you’re only suggesting we collect quotes. Also, twice now they said they’ve emailed me re: instruction or with a link, but then it’s not there. And then there is always the complication that they’re mailing it to my “fake email.” What is your suggestion re: 12 step types forums. I mean, we don’t wanna be trolls, right? Or, do we? I cannot decide if trolling can actually be a positive thing (at least in a sense…)

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    violet, you don’t have to create an account or post on any forums, just to pull a quote… There are so many examples of AAs treating each other like shit or giving each other irresponsible advice, gaslighting each other or raging at critics, etc.

    I love getting up early lately :)

  • Lucy

    http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42735&p=3&topicID=40828141

    My brain doesn’t want to be an “alcoholic” this week.

  • Lucy

    And in response from Laurie B.

    My advise is to speak with your sponsor ask for a suggestion and take that suggestion.

  • Eddie Spaghetti

    Violet wrote: “great job on your awesome nine months.”

    This is great. Only on Stinkin’ Thinkin’ do people get congradulations for NOT going to AA meetings. I swear, before I came here, I never knew there were other people out there who think like I do. I guess I suspected they existed, but I never knew where to find them.

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    Do You Believe the Big Book Divinely Inspired by a Higher Power?

    http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42735&p=3&topicID=40878165

    Only one responded “no” — but they made quick work of that.

  • Eddie Spaghetti

    FTG,

    The Big Book was indeed inspired by Bill Wilson’s higher power; money.

  • Martha
  • SoberPJ

    Yes, gawd felt it was finally time to help alcoholics once and for all through a clinically depressed, narcissistic, adultering, money grubbing, con man because.. well.. gawd has a great sense of humor.

  • Lucy

    FTG – I read that divinely inspired question. I also read the answers. My favorite was “DEVINE.” (How do people misspell a word that was in the question that was asked?)

  • Martha

    “Listen, Bill I am here to inspire you to write a lousy book:”

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VNNIzO71jfs/TP9OfhDBJ0I/AAAAAAAAE7E/SmFTrVm7cHw/s1600/1a.jpeg

    (Divinely inspired)

  • Ben Franklin

    Yes, Devine introvention….to Devine inspiration…

    We are all so very very very Blessed. Thanks be to GOD and his Mercy he has shown each and everyone one of us.
    my 2 cents

    Tonicakes

    I absolutely do, yeah. How can it be that in the whole course of alcoholism in human history, that the 12 steps (OK, the original 6 steps, which then became 12) didn’t come along until the 20th century? I believe it truly was/is a miracle.
    HSOJ

    HSOJ has no concept of justice in the philosophical sense. God just said to all those alkies before the 20th century: Fuck Em. Kind of makes God look like an uncaring person. Then Bill came about and God said” hey that thieving, philandering sot looks like someone who will carry my message” Yeah it could happen
    Tonicakes has no concept of justice int he philosophical sense, can’t spell,uses an adjective too much, uses words that don’t exist and doesn’t know how to capitalize. These are the intellectual giants that we are supposed to take good orderly direction from. These are the JDs of the world.

  • Lucy

    Massive Attack – I agree with you.

    For many years, I was a textbook illustration for “cognitive dissonance.” My body went to meetings while my mind struggled to fit into the lockstep narrative that I heard there. I would leave feeling like a liar and a cheat only to have a sponsee call me to see why she too felt crazy when she left. Instead of saying that I felt crazy too, I would just say to make everything in the meeting about staying away from the first drink, and not care about what was said.

    My husband having a breakdown shattered what was left of the illusion of AA for me, and I began to think about leaving. When I finally did, I felt like I was whole again.

  • Lucy

    Ben Franklin – And God just says, “Fuck “em” to all the people that get hurt by the behavior of AA members.

    I went to meetings with a lawyer who killed 4 people in a blackout. As he began every share. I heard him say. ” I don’t know why God saved me that night but I know He has always looked after me. I know he put me through this because he had something big in store for me.”

    I guess God hated those 4 people He killed and had nothing in store for them.

  • MA

    This a timely conversation. I actually have an interview with God this week. I’m going to post a transcript of our conversation here on the blog. Are there any questions you folks would like me to ask him?

  • SoberPJ

    No, God loved them and his gift was a tragic, painful, premature end to their lives. It’s how he rolls.. very mysterious, but a great planner.

  • SoberPJ

    Yeah, ask him why he gav eus brains and then put us in an intellectual purgatory where there are no concrete answers for anything?

  • Lucy

    MA – Three questions -

    Why did He make caller ID and ruin the prank phone calls for 6th graders?
    Why did He take Curly instead of Shemp? I liked Curly better.
    Will the Antichrist come from New Jersey?

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    Can you ask him why mosquitoes survival depends on doing something that makes everyone want to kill them?

  • Ben Franklin

    Lucy, Tony J is from New Jersey so that may answer one of your questions.

  • Martha

    Ask him if it ever gets annoying to have his name screamed out when people are having sex.

    Also is it true that when Jesus sees something startling he says ‘Me!”

  • causeandeffect

    Please ask him why if he makes certain people suffer as alcoholics for the greater purpose that they can quit drinking and then help other alcoholics quit drinking and suffering, why doesn’t he just NOT make people alchoholics?

  • causeandeffect

    FTG, I’ve always had a question about the mosquitoes thing too.

  • causeandeffect

    Ask him if dammit is really his last name.

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    c&e, I also wonder why moths don’t try to fly to the moon.

  • sugomom

    Thanks FTG! I can’t plant anything, never can keep it alive!

    JD! JD! Gosh I wish that you would use the search function on your computer to educate yourself before you make rash statements of psuedo fact. You don’t even need to belong to a forum to see this kind of dribble. Go to Yahoo questions and answers and search AA, Dating in AA, dating someone in recovery or any other combination and you will find thousands of these q and a’s
    Here, I have done one for you……really long url to paste, because there are so many!

    http://answers.yahoo.com/search/search_result?scope=all&category=0&fltr=_en&question_status=all&answer_count=any&date_submitted=all&crumb=1Xvi7HdQE%2FF&p=date+a+recovering&orderby=rank&filter_search=%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3EApply%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E&clear_search=%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3E%3CSPAN%3EClear%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E%3C%2FSPAN%3E&filter_search=true#add-saved-search

  • Eddie Spaghetti

    As I understand it, Jesus, as the son of God, allegedly had wine for blood. That would make him the most chronic alcoholic I know. But AA is all about creating a God of our understanding, so I guess that can be tweeked. Just think, how egotistical is it that we can create our own Gods and define those Gods however we understand them to be?!

  • sugomom

    Eddie Spaghetti, the author of the original post asserts that atheists assert their ego’s into every issue, then goes on to assert that people who drink alcohol are Egotists. Given that most in the “spiritual” program of AA are in there because their Ego’s made them drink alcohol, is it safe to say that no one in AA really has a God at all?
    I’m not sure if you can follow my reasoning, as I was just trying to figure out the OP’s reasoning.

  • Lucy

    FTG – Moths don’t fly to the moon because it is made of cheese. Now if it were made of cashmere, that would be a problem for them.

    Also, MA, ask Him why he hasn’t smited Kate Gosselin, Octomom, and the Lohan family. That’s on my mind whenever I am standing in the grocery store check out line.

  • Eddie Spaghetti

    Sugomom, the author of the orginal thread is off his rocker and completely disconnected from reality. I am not sure if it is even possible to make sense out of what he is saying. But I suppose logically, it flows if you buy his premises. Specifically, he claims:

    1) Atheists assert their egos into every issue, and

    2) people who drink alchol are egotists.

    It does not necessarily follow that all people who drink alcohol are atheists. Mainly, atheists, under his flawed reasoning, atheists are not necessarily the only people who assert their egos in all situations. Theists could too. But he does not define his terms at all, and it is meaningless to try to make logical sense of his post.

  • Eddie Spaghetti

    Sugomom, think of it this way:

    1) People with AIDS have HIV

    2) People who take AIDS medications have HIV

    From that, it does not follow that all people who take HIV medication have AIDS. Afterall, one can have HIV without AIDS.

  • hulahoop

    @MA – Would you please ask him what the “real” recovery rate of AA is? Also, the real retention or drop out rate too?

    Why doesn’t he hear my prayers unless I use AA as the middleman?

    Why are there so many different 12 step groups when it would be a much more effective use of time to have one where everyone could get their problem taken care of without wasting so much time.

    Does he endorse the Lord’s Prayer being said after meetings?

    Is it really necessary to wear purfume to meetings?

    Does my disease really do push ups in parking lot when I am not looking? Why can’t it do something productive like clean my bathroom or do the dishes?

    Are he and the AA God related (like distant cousins)?

    Could he possibly help me out with parking spaces, lottery numbers, and short lines? I hate standing in a long line.

  • DeConstructor

    Perhaps one should also ask why the AA god appoints the most arrogant, narcissistic asses, who by the way are unaware of actual facts, to be his official spokesmen.

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    Ask him if he’s affiliated with AA.

  • AnnaZed

    @Lucy [who said] ~ “I went to meetings with a lawyer who killed 4 people in a blackout. As he began every share. I heard him say. ” I don’t know why God saved me that night but I know He has always looked after me. I know he put me through this because he had something big in store for me.”

    I think that this is an important function of AA for many people. While not all AA members have succeeded in committing vehicular homicide all members are made to feel that their own actions while drunk (that they have been induced to feel very, very guilty about) are exactly equivalent (not similar) to this type of crime; ergo the AA member who has done the worst (think of those ever escalating dunkalog one-upmanship races) becomes the most revered in AA.

    I too spent time check by jowl with a man who claimed to have (his words) “mowed down a bunch of bicyclists and just drove away” while in a “black-out.” That would be a hit-and-run obviously. He claimed not to be sure if anyone died or not. He really liked telling this story and it included (I shit you not) the assertion that God allowed him to flee the scene and not be taken into custody because God had other plans for him like being a force for God in sobriety in AA. Now, He particularly liked telling this story around me because I myself am a cyclist and have a morbid fear and horror of impaired drivers because I am so vulnerable on the bike. I used to tell my sponsor how uncomfortable and even enraged this narrative used to make me and her responses were boilerplate (of course): “don’t take other people’s inventory,” “God plans the meeting so that you will hear what you need to hear,” “you haven’t done thatyet.

    This guy really set himself up and a dime-store guru complete with hovering fawning minions, groupies (he was married) and semi-slaves who spent every single day of their lives doing stuff for him. He had a house in the dessert and was fond of taking these lost souls on retreats that (of course) had fees attached to “cover expenses.” He was pretty generally considered a leading light in the spiritual arms race though somehow the question of an amends to these accident victims was out of the question because of Wilson’s cleverly phrased pass on that sort of major life changing stuff.

    [Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
    so would injure them or others.

    The "them or others" that Wilson referred to was obviously himself and smart AAs take that advice straight to heart. All top dog AAs that I have ever met (there is no exception to this rule) have major big ticket crimes or outrages in their histories for which amends could never in a million years be made ~ though incarceration might be a good start in most cases.]

  • Gunthar2000

    I can just picture God calling Jesus into his office and telling him, You’re fired! Bill Wilson is taking your place.”

  • Lucy

    AnnaZed – I so agree. It’s a way to consent to staying in denial (much as I hate that term) about the consequences of a bad decision he made himself. But it got even more crazy.

    The lawyer had been raised as a Baptist and when drinking was the black sheep of a very Calvinist and prominent family here in Dallas. He clearly equated drinking with sin, and saw the accident as his punishment for sinning. . His guilt was over the drinking itself , not the people he killed. Demon Rum caused the accident.

    Ten years after the accident (and after the courts had taken away his license for life), I saw him driving his wife to the grocery store. When I asked him how he got to drive again, he told me that he had gone to the court with other lawyers in AA and proved that he had been sober for ten years and was not a threat to other drivers.

    Nice to be wealthy, connected and forgiven, huh?

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    I can’t even begin to imagine the mentality of someone who asks for his license back after killing four people. Just by asking he proved himself to be a complete sociopath and should have been locked up on the spot.

  • jcal

    Most people in AA will make simple amends but usually will not pay back any money that they owe others. How genuine can a person be if they will not give back money they owe? Has anybody here ever witnessed an AA pay back $$$ when doing their 9th step?

  • humanspirit

    This is a gem of a quote – thanks, Sugomom.

    I think it’s extremely egotistical (and delusional) of this person to think that anyone remotely normal would want to date him at all. Note it’s all about whether HE would bestow his immense favours on some unfortunate woman, as if there were hordes of women out there fighting over his undoubted charms and he can just pick and choose. He wants anyone he’s lucky enough to date to have a whole list of characteristics that conform to his incredibly narrow view of what relationships and real people are about. He’s a controller who will lay down a strict set of criteria that she must conform to, or she’s out (even if he has managed to “drive” her to AA meetings – what a repulsive thing to say).

    God help any woman who ever does date this egomaniac asshole – she’ll no doubt live to regret it, even if she is a pure, spiritual stepper. But I would bet my right arm that this guy is a single loner and is using his AA faith to justify to himself why he doesn’t have a girlfriend. AA is kind of handy in that way.

  • humanspirit

    @Lucy says:

    “I went to meetings with a lawyer who killed 4 people in a blackout. As he began every share. I heard him say. ” I don’t know why God saved me that night but I know He has always looked after me. I know he put me through this because he had something big in store for me.”

    I guess God hated those 4 people He killed and had nothing in store for them.”

    This is absolutely sickening, but I’ve heard something similar from a stepper myself (whose higher power apparently saved him when he was in a drunken car accident in which his fellow passengers – all young people – died). What’s scarier, IMO, is that such people aren’t immediately shot down in flames for this kind of statement, as would happen in any normal environment and among people with any idea of fundamental moral values.

  • Lucy

    @Human (I can call you “Human,” can’t I?)

    I was more worried about the people who respected him for “demonstrating the power of AA.” I knew he had to find a way to live with himself, no matter how disgusted I was with him.

  • Marco

    God, what arrogance that AA member!

  • Lucy

    FTG- Yes. Very disturbing. I saw him in the car at least 15 years ago, and it still bothers me. I guess he felt like penance was served

  • humanspirit

    Always happy to be called “human” Lucy ;) ! (though some may doubt it . . .)

    I totally see your point, and it’s kind of similar to the point I was trying to make. I just can’t see any other environment in which anyone would be applauded for stating that God had saved them for a particular purpose while apparently not giving a shit about the people that that person had killed. What was the “power of AA” that was demonstrated as far as these people were concerned?

  • Lucy

    Human – Beats me.

    My guess is that they are impressed that the lawyer apparently had no guilt about killing those folks, and lots of guilt over having been drunk while he did it.

    As near as I can tell, AA fixes things like guilt over treating other people like shit, and replaces it with fear of not getting the approval of an old timer. That’s why it’s okay to leave your kid home alone to go to a meeting or why you can cheat on your wife if the cheating is with a newcomer whom you are keeping sober.

  • jcal

    A young pretty girl used to attend Aa. She had a terrible story about her and her friends taking a car on a joy ride after a party. She dropped her 2 friends off and was driving towards her house when a cop red lighted her. She panicked (in a stolen car) and hit the accelorater and rear ended a car with 3 people in it. Two of the people died, a father and his daughter. The mother lived. She went to prison for 7 years I think. She received all kinds of hate mail and what not in the penn. When she was released she went to AA. She was not proud of her story at all. When she would lead a meeting and tell her story, people would have a hard time even looking at her. She couldnt live well with what she had done. Julie would relapse often. Each time she would come back looking more beat up than the last. The last time I saw her before she overdosed and died she had lost most of her teeth. AA could not help Julie. I never ever heard her say anything about god having a plan for her. She was pretty cool imo.

  • humanspirit

    @Lucy says:

    ” My guess is that they are impressed that the lawyer apparently had no guilt about killing those folks, and lots of guilt over having been drunk while he did it.”

    This is such an incredibly, massively important point about the AA philosophy that I don’t think I’ve ever seen articulated so clearly before. Thank you.

  • causeandeffect

    I find it difficult to comment on these issues, they make me so angry. It’s such an antisocial way to evade emotional responsibility. I just can’t imagine thinking this way.

  • humanspirit

    @jcal

    Another tragic story for everyone involved. I don’t know how I could start to live with the guilt of something like that (and obviously Julie couldn’t, either even having served her time). But AA is obviously not the answer, and being obliged to rehash that story over and over again to a judgemental audience obviously wasn’t the answer either. It seems to be a case of a person who really did take personal responsibility for what she’d done being less able to cope with it than the kind of person that Lucy talks about, who imagines God has granted him special favours because he is in AA, puts all responsibility onto his “disease”, and has no real sense of remorse. A truly, truly sad story.

  • JD

    I’m going to call Bullshit on this.

    Google finds it here, but no where else. On other forums posts that are just hours old come up on a search-this does not.

    Items that are actually real are perhaps less fun?

    Sorry, I remember now…that doesn’t matter to anyone here.

  • Jcal

    JD says
    I’m going to call Bullshit on this.
    JD idk about any of the others story but the short story I posted is true. When I read quote of the day, I kinda thought that could have been a troll that posted that on a pro-AA site. It seems a lil over the top.

  • MA

    We have a whole treasure troves of real, crazy, AA whackadoodle nuttiness. Finding it is like shooting fish in a barrel. It doesn’t replace the best crazy, which is in real life. But it’s pretty good. Read up, JD. Enjoy.

  • AllyB

    I googled it and found it right away JD.

  • http://www.stinkin-thinkin.com friendthegirl

    JD, I think now is a good time for you to accept the things you cannot change.

  • tintop

    “I’m going to call Bullshit on this.”

    What you think is immaterial, foster.

    stop whinging

  • Rick045

    I copied and pasted the first paragraph of this quote into Google, and ST came up. I tried on Bing and ST came up again and also this post in another forum. Here is the forum, this is from a poster named “Courageous Mind”.
    http://forums.plentyoffish.com/13738179datingPostpage3.aspx

  • MA

    Check out Courageous Mind’s profile page:

    “I work in the Media. My goal is to raise a family, start an alternative school for White children, change the world.”

  • Martha

    Again we see outright bigotry from 12 steppers. This fool probably wants to get back to the basic racism of the Oxford Group. I guess if you become delusional enough to believe that alcoholics are somehow superior to “normies” that it reinforces the delusion that Caucasians are superior to other humans.

  • causeandeffect

    Gawd, even his picture shows how smug and AArrogant he is. Absolutely revolting. And one of his interests is thinking outside the box? Please! And what does this mean?
    “12 steps are religion for atheist high willpower egotists.

  • humanspirit

    MA says

    “Check out Courageous Mind’s profile page:

    “I work in the Media. My goal is to raise a family, start an alternative school for White children, change the world.”

    So I guess this courageous loner’s fantasy stepper woman has to be White [sic] too! Whether anyone, white or otherwise, would ever let him shag her is another question.

    You couldn’t make it up. (Honestly, JD, you couldn’t.)

  • causeandeffect

    Excellent point Martha. I’ve seen it. And the low self esteem translated into AA style egotism also adds to the desperate need for superiority.

  • Gunthar2000

    @Marta…

    It’s a form of social Darwinism.

    Like most other AA bullshit, it is contradicted by other AA beliefs; specifically the belief that alcoholics are morally inferior.

  • JD

    Sorry for the BS call Sugomom.

    You’re right-he’s real and he’s very weird.

  • hulahoop

    Check out Courageous Mind’s profile page:

    “I work in the Media. My goal is to raise a family, start an alternative school for White children, change the world.”

    I guess interracial dating is out of the question then?

    At least he is up front about it. I am not saying it is right. At least you know what you would be getting in advance.

    It’s a free dating site. AA is a free program. It looks like you get what you pay for.

  • Jcal

    causeandeffect says
    Gawd, even his picture shows how smug and AArrogant he is. Absolutely revolting. And one of his interests is thinking outside the box? Please! And what does this mean?
    “12 steps are religion for atheist high willpower egotists.
    Lmfao! That dudes out of his freakin mind. I cant believe thats a real forum. I think I need to start thinking ‘outside the box’ WTF!

  • Ben Franklin

    JD, you dumb monkey, he is real weird and he should be your best pal.

  • http://none violet

    sorta off topic:

    i did not realize this was plentyoffish. holy canoli. i am so glad i am not dating through the internet. not that there is anything wrong with that. i have done it a few times–back when i was single!!! it is not all bad. i wold say that this site is the worst. there is very little filtering. if anyone on here is single and needs my adviec :) my thought is that it is much, much better to go on a site that you have to pay a bit more. seriously, the level of people you meet is much, much better. i think craigs is even better than this site. but be safe! i never realized there was a gd forum.

  • sugomom

    Wow JD! I feel honored. An apology? I did not think you were capable. I did not find this creeps advice on this horrid dating site. He posted the same exact response in an answer on the Yahoo Q and A site. It totally creeps me out that he is posting thi dribble on multiple public sites. I wonder how often he wears his white cone head “Glory Suit”?