We’re back.

Maybe a couple of people noticed that we went offline for a bit. Sorry about that!

  • Ez

    I just kept coming back until you returned…

  • humanspirit

    I guess those of us across the pond had more time to worry that you'd suffered the fate of exposeaa!

  • anonymous of course

    I missed Ya! Glad you're back on line.


  • I'm sorry about the glitch there. I sent in a payment to our host, but instead of doing it through their system, I sent it through paypal. So, they didn't know I'd sent it in, but obviously we straightened it out.

    Which reminds me, I am working on a little stinkin-thinkin affiliate Powells bookshop to help offset the cost of the blog. I have a list of books, but if you can think of any you think might be useful to readers here, let me know! You can check to see if Powells carries them on their website: <a href="http://www.powells.com” target=”_blank”>www.powells.com

  • true believer

    It is also easy to put a paypal donate tab up to defray expenses. AA meetings get a buck, this site is actually worth it.

  • anonymous of course

    I will do my  part.

  • cherokeebride

    I recommend anything by Albert Ellis – which I noticed Powells actually has more listed than any I've seen outside of Amazon! (And I'm enough of a rational thinking nerd to really get jazzed up about that!) Also, SMART has a good list of books (recommended reading) that may make a good list: http://www.smartrecovery.org/resources/readlist.h

  • DeConstructor

    It is  nice to see the site back up.  I didn't think AA apologists were organized enough to pull off any dirty tricks, but I would not put it past the recovery industry.

  • tintop

    I am glad that you are back up.  I thought that you were doing 'housecleaning' or something.

    Ellis is good.  A lot of his ideas come from classical stoicism.  SMART is a good site.

  • cherokeebride

    @tintop I didn't know that – though am just delving into philosophy now. Thanks for the tip!

  • Alex T
  • Gunthar2000

    Alcohol: How to Give It Up and Be Glad You Did

    Philip Tate / See Sharp Press


    Rational Recovery: the New Cure for Substance Addiction

    by Jack Trimpey


    A New Guide To Rational Living

    by Albert Ellis


    Empowering Your Sober Self: The Lifering Approach to Addiction Recovery

    by Martin Nicolaus


    The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure: A Holistic Approach to Total Recovery

    by Chris Prentiss


    How to Quit Drinking Without AA: A Complete Self-Help Guide

    by Jerry Dorsman


    When AA Doesn't Work for You: Rational Steps to Quitting Alcohol

    by Albert Ellis


    Addiction is a Choice

    by Jeffrey Schaler


    How Alcoholics Anonymous failed me :my personal journey to sobriety through self-empowerment

    by Marianne W Gilliam


    The Heart of Addiction: A New Approach to Understanding and Managing Alcoholism and Other Addictive Behaviors

    by Lance M Dodes


    Seven Weeks to Sobriety: The Proven Program to Fight Alcoholism Through Nutrition

    by Joan Mathews Larson


    The Cure for Alcoholism: Drink Your Way Sober Without Willpower, Abstinence or Discomfort

    by Roy Eskapa


    Small Book: A Revolutionary Alternative for Overcoming Alcohol and Drug Dependence

    by Jack Trimpey


    The Vitamin Cure for Alcoholism: How to Protect Against and Fight Alcoholism Using Nutrition and Vitamin Supplementation

    Abram Hoffer / Basic Health Publications


  • Thank you, Gunthar!

  • Z

    I just read this interesting novel, most obviously about child abuse and the weirdness of academia (it's a memoir, really, not a novel, so the author is a real person writing about her life — now teaches creative writing) and one of the threads it is various peoples' alcoholism, including the author/narrator/character's … http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9781564785176

  • Gunthar2000


    Put a paypal donate button on your page and do it now!

  • It's up, Gunthar. πŸ™‚

    Please don't anyone go overboard. Our overhead is really low and ST is a labor of love.

  • Susan

    cheaper than an AA meeting and the coffee's better too… πŸ™‚

  • true believer

    Thanks for passing the basket Gunthar2000, I put my buck in.


    Real live sober AA hater

  • Z

    This site really has done me a world of good, I'll be contributing too!

  • true believer

    Since deprogramming, I have better communication with my wife and have become aware of how AA is the perfect platform for inappropriate conversations. I saw an AA girl yesterday at my business who asked "is your wife giving you enough sex?". How nice of her to be concerned (snirk). The other observation that I have made is that my self esteem has improved. I recently gained the self worth to assert communication and quit a dead end job for greener pastures. I was allowing myself to be taken advantage of in the job I was in because my boss was in AA and manipulating me. One evening during a road trip for work we had rooms next to each other, she asked, "do you want to cuddle"? I pretended not to hear. Thank God I didn't "cuddle", it would be impossible to quit the job, at least before my marriage was ruined.

  • SoberPJ

    I think it would be an interesting topic for a psychological study on the relationship between managers and subordinates that are both in AA. I have only worked for two people that are in AA. Both situations have been kind of bizarre. The first guy was someone that I went to hundreds of meetings, many dinners, and a couple of retreats with. He talked a great Yoda game, until he was in the office. There, he was an anger addict – 0 to 100 on the anger scale in a nanosecond. He stiffed me for $9,ooo . I avoided him for years and have seen him a couple of times lately – even sat next to him at a meeting recently and THAT was awkward. Not a word about the debt. He acts like nothing ever happened. Of course, I'm supposed to forgive him and act like nothing ever happened too – mainly because I was being selfish, dishonest and inconsiderate when I was underbilling for my time and giving him a couple months of float to help him out because he was an AA "friend". People have told me not to do work for others in AA. On that one I should have listened and I could have avoided the situation all together.

  • true believer


    Thanks for the first hand expeience.

    $9000.00 Ouch!

    I'm only owed about $3-4000.

    Fortunately, I can offset it with money I owe them if need be.

    Still on the short end of the stick from the obligadory help expected of those in the program.

  • Rick045

    SoberPJ & true believer,

    I don't feel so bad about the eight hundred I lost to a co-worker and fellow AAer. He got fired before paying me back, I never saw him again. A few years ago, I got an envelope in the mail with thirty bucks in it from another old AA acquaintance. I barely remember the guy, and had long since forgotten about the money.

  • Rick045

    A couple of more book suggestions,


    Diseasing of America, by Stanton Peele

    Combatting Cult Mind Control, by Steven Hassan


  • Gunthar2000

    Do these books have to be about AA and addiction?

    What about rational thought?… Cognitive conscious?… Mental health?

    Should we have categories?

    I'm not talking about gardening… or how to bake muffins.

    I'm focusing more on psychology, philosophy, and maybe even different approaches to self actualization.

    Maybe we should just stick with muckraking.

    I've just been wondering.

    What are we doing here?

    What is the purpose of this blog?

    Don't get me wrong… I'm not trying to be critical.

    I just want to hear what's going on in the minds of the people who are active here.

    What are we doing here?

  • I thought we could have different categories, different subjects… Their inclusion wouldn't mean a ST endorsement. Just stuff we all have found to be of interest, for whatever reason. It might rotate? I'll see what's possible.

    I mean, say, we mention or review a book, we could add it to the page, just in case anyone is interested. Though I think I'll draw a line at AAWS.

    And, often wonder what we're doing πŸ™‚ … My answer is that I think we are all here keeping this conversation active and dynamic (even if can get a little wah wah wah sometimes…) so that there's a community for people to find when they need it, and so that there's some energy here.

    The conversation is important. But then, I do tend to think, well… now what? I am interested to see everyone's answers.

  • SoberPJ

    Ya always have to start from where ya are. So, you have a blog. It is somewhat centered around topics that bring attention to the fallacies, frailties and problems of the AA ecosystem. If that is the goal, then you are accomplishing it. Is there more you want to do? Directly affect change as opposed to talking about it? Something else?  Only you can answer that one…It's your blog you know πŸ™‚

    Now, what about your "viewers and contributors" ? What needs are being met by involvement here? The need to vent? The need to contribute to the topics in a meaningful way? The need to combat any AA heresy? I think the needs are more varied on this side of the blog.

    The story posting and energetic commentary can go on indefinitely, but you will get bored with the drudgery if you feel there is nothing really being accomplished. It very time consuming and seemingly endless at times. Hence all the orphaned web sites and blogs already in existence. The owners lose the spark that compelled their creation. Many abandoned, few maintained. I think it is the natural course of life on the web.

    It seems that what keeps the spark alive is periodic affirmation to the original goal, or a new set of modified goals that build on the platform that has been created. You certainly have a base of viewers and contributors. But will they align with any new goals you may create? If there is a call to action, how many will get involved? And how? Why?

    The story is certainly unfolding and, from what I have seen, your next move is activism. I don't believe your are content with just talking about the issues, you want something done about them. The energy is there, but is the resolve?

  • true believer

    How many unique hits does this site get. That is a real barometer of outreach. I think the personal stories relating to bad experience in AA are the most useful to the public at large. The news stories and topics make a good catalyst for this. This site provides good support to those stuck in the recovery system. In AA they say you feel better after a meeting, well I feel better after a good read down at Stinkin Thinkin.

    I have been a part of some great blogs. The problem areas have been dissonance from the core contributors and the moderator being faced with overwhelming growth in the readership.

  • Gunthar2000

    Are we down again?

  • humanspirit

    Seems OK in Cambridge UK, Gunthar. (But late here and time for bed.)

  • Gunthar2000

    Whew… It's been kind of dead.

  • humanspirit

    Maybe the steppers are sleeping (or all at meetings).

  • tintop

    The right hand side has links to two good yahoo boards:  12 step free and escape from the cult of AA.   Ken Ragge has a good site at morerevealed, including personal stories.

    Y'all may want to look at them. There are good folks at those yahoo sites.  Ragge has done a good job for years.

  • Gunthar2000

    I kind of want to see stinkin' thinkin' grow, so I'll just stick with this for now.

    I've seen them all already. Ragge's site has some good books for free.