Is Alcoholics Anonymous a religion? Sometimes.

If you ever get bored one day, and want an exercise in futility, find an AAer and ask them to pin down exactly what they believe AA to be. My experience in this shows me that answer will be situational, and depending on the objective of the AA member, it is anything from a “fellowship” to a “support group” to “therapy”. It becomes like a psychological game of three-card monte, and can be a maddening experience.

One thing to which they will rarely admit, is that it is a religious organization. This gets particularly frustrating for anyone who has ever attended a meeting, as it is overtly religious – from the citing of the twelve-steps, to the reading of the Lord’s Prayer. This fact was never an issue in the early days of AA, before the courts fully embraced the establishment clause of The Constitution. This is from a 1939 article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

“There is no blinking the fact that Alcoholics Anonymous, the amazing society of ex-drunks who have cured each other of an incurable disease, is religious. Its members have cured each other frankly with the help of God. Every cured member of the Cleveland Fellowship of the society, like every cured member of the other chapters now established in Akron, New York, and elsewhere in the country, is cured with the admission that he submitted his plight wholeheartedly to a Power Greater than Himself.

He has admitted his conviction that science cannot cure him, that he cannot control his pathological craving for alcohol himself, and that he cannot be cured by the prayers, threats, or pleas of his family, employers, or friends. His cure is a religious experience. He had to have God’s aid. He had to submit to a spiritual housecleaning.”

Back in the early days, AA’s religious principles were just as overt as they were today, but they were less of an issue. Not until courts began ruling that the state cannot impose organized religion on an individual, did AA fully embrace the “it’s spiritual, not religious” doublespeak. Sure, it was used before, but only as a duplicitous recruiting tool, and not as a legal argument. Still, there is really no difference between “spiritual” and “religious”, and using one term over another is like using the word “mauve” instead of “light purple”, as they are two terms that describe the same thing.

AA’s do not deny their religious nature when it suits their needs. As with that article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, nobody complains when AA is referenced in the Religious calendars of newspapers from across the country, or in puff pieces from the “Religious Section” of various newspapers, like this one from Reno, Nevada. Here is a quote:

“Honestly, I’ve been in many places of worship, and I haven’t heard this sort of genuine personal recitation of God’s place in the individual’s life. When I came to the gathering, I thought perhaps it was a stretch to put an AA meeting in a space usually reserved for more traditional spiritual practices, but this group has its ritual, personal testimony and even honored writings—same as any other religious organization. After all, God is mentioned in six of the 12 steps, with the second—Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity—expressing a belief in God’s personal intervention in their lives.”

I doubt there were any complaints from this AA group about what was written in this article, or why it appears as a church review. I emailed the author and asked him, but so far I have heard no response.

Go to any meeting, and you will swear that you are in a church group. AA’s like to hold the odd atheist up as a poster child, proving they are inclusive; but those are the rare exceptions of non-believers who are able to look past the dogma. Every church has quiet non-believers within their congregations, but that does not mean they are not religious. Besides, AA’s stated objective with these non-believers is to subject them to the dogma long enough to where they will eventually receive their own white light experience. Acceptance of an atheist or agnostic into AA is not an inclusive act. It is an act of conversion.

Courts understand these things, as they are not easily persuaded by fallacious arguments. AA has, in multiple cases, been ruled a religious organization that cannot be imposed on an individual. One of the more interesting cases is that of Paul Cox, who confessed in his AA group to bludgeoning a couple of people, and as a result was charged and convicted of murder. The appeals court later ruled that the State did not extend his clergy privilege in his conviction, and that his confession of these murders is tantamount to confessing to priest, because AA is a religious organization. (Cox v Miller)

It begs a number of questions, including what was the mindset of the defendant when he made this open confession to his group. I suspect he felt the religious experience of AA that many of the converts describe, and that he was merely confessing to his peer group of lay ministers, which is essentially what an AAer becomes with time in the group. They are, after all, giving out spiritual advice and preaching from what is, in their minds, an infallible doctrine. I also suspect that had anyone questioned this guy before he was charged with a crime whether AA was religious or not, he would have given them the old ‘it-is-spiritual-not-religious’ spin, but I say this only because I have never heard any AAer admit to it being religious.

I’m no legal scholar, but I don’t agree with the ruling. I don’t believe that religious freedom extends to confessions of crime – whether they are done in a confession booth or to a congregation of believers. I do, however, agree with the logical consistency of the ruling that if an organization is going to act as a religion, then they should have the same accountabilities and rights as any religion. If this judge felt AA was religious, he had an obligation to rule as he would with any other religion.

  • speedy0314

    religion, 'spiritual practice', brand name … AA on the whole is a crock of shit with a few shiny specks of humanity showing through the mess. if bill wilson were alive today, i'd be happy to serve him up that whiskey he so ardently demanded on his deathbed.

    "my god, my god … why have you forsaken me?"

    the death of a thousand paper-cuts is coming 12X12's way. somewhere on mount olympus, baachus is laughing his ass off.

  • Dan

    AA dogma on the Second Step is primarily contained in the Twelve & Twelve where the theme is transcendence from atheism, agnosticism, AND the religion of the Bible to a supposedly higher-level spirituality based on AAs precepts and practice. Any sop toward organized religion in the texts or heard at meetings is strictly a rhetorical ploy which will be dismissed with in short order during every newcomer's formal indoctrination at the feet of a watchful adept, his sponsor. A newcomer will rarely question the religious beliefs of his new sponsor, but this is irrelevant since no matter what belief a sponsor professes to have as a come-on, it is going to be unadulterated indoctrination in the AA religion. So, what is the AA religion?

    Looking at its history gives some clues. Both its founders were Ouija board-using spiritualists claiming communication with the dead and spirits. Bill W's wife was a Swedenborgian and Dr. Bob was a freemason, both of which deny the Divinity of Christ. Today's AA, however, is more self-indulgent New Age mysticism than like its Jazz Age, New Thought spiritualist roots. In my experience from attending meetings for 15 years, I'd say it's essence is an anti-religion religion–that's its main appeal–and any spirituality is acceptable and may be freely expressed at meetings, just so long as it's not the theological teachings of the Christian faith. That will immediately elicit disapproving body language, coughs, chairs moving around, and so on.

    This anti-religion religion has a strong appeal to those looking for the benefits of organized religion without the moral consequences of its teachings. Spiritually, AA is itself the "easy way out" it claims to oppose. If there is one sentiment that characterizes AA "sharing" on spirituality, it's the venomous resentment of organized religion from the predictably ignorant and contrived catalog of its failures. This is odd since AA claims resentments are the number one reason for relapses, while these resentments against religion are voiced with passion, and often rage.

    The truth is, AA is a locus for every crackpot, pseudo-religious, self-indulgent phony spirituality that happens to be making the rounds at any given time, from its roots in the 30s down to the present day. The article implies that AAs go to one meeting or so a week. In fact, in my area, most go to at least five a week, with the truly lunatic fringe going sometimes twice a day, where they listen with rapt attention as one narcissist after another gushes "his truth" in a cacophony of mass insanity. No wonder it's so popular; it sounds an awful lot like a microcosm of American society these days.

  • friendthegirl

    Welcome, Dan. Righteous post. I hope you stick around.

  • Dan

    It's painful to read the vitriolic replies to my earlier post from the likes of "mcgowdog," whose rage, which is so typical and predictable of AAs, betrays his incapacity to understand let alone actually live a spiritually directed life. I pity him because I have witnessed countless of his kind smugly assuring themselves of their superiority for no other reason than congregating with like-minded people who absurdly imply they have examined the theology, ethics, morality, art, history, culture, and civilizing propensities of organized religion, and in their intellectual and emotional estimation found it wanting in comparison with the spiritualist dabbling of Bill W and Dr. Bob.

    As to the assertion that there are a significant number of believing Christians, Muslims, or Jews who regularly attend meetings for any length of time, that has certainly not been what I have observed over the years. In fact, I hear things like, "I find more spirituality in these rooms than I ever did in church," or, "There's more spirituality in the Big Book and Twelve and Twelve than in all the religious books I've ever read." Comments like these are more the rule than exception in my judgment, and show an embarrassing ignorance if nothing else.

    "mcgowdog" suggests that the truth of the religions he brazenly clumps together with cults is falsified by believers continuing to drink, yet extended to every sin proves the logical absurdity of maintaining a religion is to be judged by the imperfection of any part of its membership. The second part, that AA has proved to do what religion cannot, is in turn falsified by the abysmal record of abstinence the program has achieved. For every member with any time, there's something like almost fifty for whom AA didn't work. In all likelihood, "alcoholics" who never try AA, but who get back to the spiritual teachings of their religion and quit drinking on their own, probably far outnumbers the success rate of AA, such as it is.

    • mcgowdog

      Hey Dan, I sentence you back to A.A. for 20 more years so you can maybe figure it out… or at very least, be a bad example.

      While you're at it, why don't you just put my inventory in a spiral notebook and tell me when you have about 19 or 20 pages.

      Can you have it to me by early September?

      Thanks in advance.

  • Dan

    To "friendthegirl", Tks very much for your kind post. I was at a 2nd Step meeting yesterday, and after warning a newcomer about the subtle indoctrination, several oldtimers l've known for years went so far as to physically brush by me and stare back at me leaving the meeting, which I take to be some kind of asinine vote of excommunication.

    I'll try to stick around. It bothers me that newcomers looking for information on AA from non-AA sources probably come across "orange-papers" first, where the vitriolic prose and logic-chopping are as apt to drive people into AA as away from it.

    There's also the problem of trying to disabuse newcomers of AAs anti-Christian anti-theology, and its mindless New Ageism, since that is precisely what keeps the fellowship together in the first place, with the convenient ruse, of course, that it's about staying "sober."

  • Dan

    "mcgowdog", it wasn't personal, and I hope we are both able to maintain our sobriety. I realize my language was heavy-handed in making my points about what I feel are the program's shortcomings, and that I did it at your expense. I was wrong, and I apologize for offending you.

  • Jonathan Riley

    Yes, great to hear so much common sense being spoken here on this site. I was beginning to feel alone in my views and thanks to some (you know who you are) that I shouldn't be even going to meetings.
    I chair my local Wednesday meeting and have done for the past 3 months. I was chosen to do so because I allow "free" speech, correct those who "forcefully" air their opinions with "you will die etc." and openly state……….."the only requirement of AA is etc."
    I like to think I have rescued quite a few alcoholics from going back out to try "some controlled drinking" as the bb says, and the very fact that our meeting is so popular speaks for itself. The members smile, acknowledge their drinking problems and help each other stay sober. I would ask the hardliners here……….what is wrong with this and why is this not the very essence of what AA is about ?

  • mikeblamedenial

    Jonathan, The essence of steppism is the evangelical conversion of drunkards to the religion of Bill 'n Bob under the pretenses of powerlessness, surrender, acceptance and proselytizing. The bigbook is its bible, the parrots are its spokespersons, and the steps are its formula of salvation. I have found that model to be inherently, irrevocably flawed, yet obdurate and rigid. I did what you are now doing for a very long time, and at the end of it all, saved only myself. I, too, was admired for my candor, outspokedness, and conviction, but only to my face. When the mob held court at Denny's, out of my earshot, I was decried as a madman, heretic, and menace. At least twice, group consciences were held to try to figure out some way to put a stop to my blasphemies. Formats were re-formulated with me in mind. Do what you are moved to do, but remember, others have been where you are going, and it is hard to get here from there.

  • Jonathan Riley

    Thanks for your kind words, and that's not sarcasm.
    My perception is that we now outnumber the hardliners, because of our disposition. It's just that old AA has dramatic messages such as, death, insanity and misery to convey the need to do the steps, which naturally scare normal people, particularly if those preaching have long term sobriety. It's bullying in any other language.
    In response to your story, I too wonder about the message I give, but I guess the fact we have quadrupled the group size speaks for itself. This is not about me saying what I do is right, it's just evident that people feel happy and secure coming to this meeting. We're a happy, close knit group and we laugh and get well.

  • mcgowdog

    "In my experience from attending meetings for 15 years, I’d say"

    There you go! You suffered A.A. meetings for 15 years! That will make you a well-informed antiAA hero around these parts!

    "friendthegirl, on March 3, 2010 at 2:12 am Said:
    Welcome, Dan. Righteous post. I hope you stick around."

    See? You are ftg's chocolate! They are all licking their antiAA chops over here and slobbering all over you.

    To go after the A.A. founders and lump all of A.A. as its own New Age anti-Christ religion in one fell swoop will earn you high marks here.

    I've seen pleny of New Age types in A.A. I've also seen some pretty staunch Christians too. Both types are sober and some even have decent lives from what I can tell.

    I go to one… maybe two meetings a week on average. There was a time in my past, when I wasn't married… that I attended two meetings on the same day. I was lonely and maybe was looking for more than sobriety. Shame on me.

    But whatever your religion is, we're talking about drunks here, right? I don't care if you're Catholic, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, WASP, Islam, non-denominational Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Pagan, Shinto, Taoist, Unitarianist… if you're pissing your pants drunk, how's that working?

    If your religion is so fucking great, how come you're drunk?

    If you can stop drinking without any religion or without any program, then do it. Do it and get on with your life. Then you can go to zero A.A. meetings a week.

    Then if that's the case, you don't even have to come here to Stinkin' Thinkin' OR Orange Papers and join these cults. You can just get on with life.

    Or, let's say that you aren't even alcoholic. Then you can drink booze while reading all of this! Can you imagine the freedom in that?

    Have a drink on me! Oh, but don't call yourself a "real alcoholic"! God forbid you say that! Someone might sentence you to A.A. prison for life!

    I'd still rather have a bottle infrontofme than a frontal lobotomy.

    • M A

      There was a time in my past, when I wasn’t married… that I attended two meetings on the same day. I was lonely and maybe was looking for more than sobriety.

      Yeah, this type thing is pretty common in AA. We've talked about here before. Did you have any luck? What was her/his name?

      • mcgowdog

        A couple of lucky gals had their way with me. But you don't see me bragin' about it.

        It's pretty easy to pick up a guy in A.A. Just spread your legs.

        How does it work in the "real world"? Do women spread their legs out there too? If not, they ought to try it. It's fun.

        • M A

          You have a classy way of practicing AA's principles, Dawg.

          • mcgowdog

            You're the one who brought up gettin' lucky.

            "Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'" I always say.

    • mikeblamedenial

      Like I have mentioned before, the only alternative to AA a true believer will ever mention is to drink some more. You find it difficult to acknowledge that anyone, whatever their religious bent, is anything other than pants-peeing drunk if they reject your brand of Kool-ade, an all-too-typical 12-step point of view. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being sold to the down-and-out, desperate and mandated on a mass-marketing scale. If your religion is so great, why are you so hateful, and bitter?

      • mcgowdog

        All I was saying was that not everybody that drinks booze is alcoholic.

        What are you going off about?

        Oh, hateful and bitter?

        Kumbaya and Namaste, Muther-fucker.

        • mikeblamedenial

          Hateful, bitter, and vulgar. Sorry I missed one, but thanks for the clarification. What happened to bringing the Eyeluvbooze character from Youtube on-board here for back-up?

          • mcgowdog

            I would like to see him over here, but he must be busy getting laid or skateboarding or something.

  • Jonathan Riley

    I don't have a religion either.
    But you needn't get so up tight about it. I enjoy this site, like I enjoy a weekly meeting, that's all. It's a pity you have to put a slant on it, analyse what I am, what I'm not or what I could be.
    I'm not going after the AA founders either. Don't need to put them down as they're pretty good at doing that themselves.

  • Dan, the assertion that the New Church ("Swedenborgianism") "denies the Divinity of Christ" is simply false. The Thing That Is Not. An offense against the Ninth Commandment. A load of dingoes' kidneys.
    Our doctrine is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the same God who made Heaven and Earth, and no nonsense about it. This is easily ascertained by consulting numerous volumes of Swedenborg (usually on page one), or listening to our worship, instead of repeating what somebody says somebody says somebody said.
    The last time I confronted this false witness, the person's only rebuttal was to stick "also" onto another assertion that "The New Church deifies it's founder!"… a claim so devoid of any connection with reality that it would dignify it to call it a lie. Are you perchance using the same source?

    As for "Freemasonry", "it" does no assert or deny any specific doctrines (which would be hard to do, as the rules forbid discussing religion or politics at meetings.) All the Freemasons I know are Christians or Jews; and indeed some of the latter complain that the York Rite degrees are TOO Christian. But, as the wise Mr. Lewis says, "If the Patagonians think me a dwarf and the pygmies a giant, perhaps my stature is fairly unremarkable".

    • Tony J

      Will, you'll be surprised at what you learn about yourself from these internet genuises on this blog.

      They remind me of the fundamentalist Protestants I used to know who would lecture me on what the (my) Catholic Church teaches.

      The moral of the story is, it's always easier to worry about the other guys life than your own.

      Still, I enjoyed reading your post and I'm glad you corrected the record. They won't believe you, of course, but it's good you did anyway.

      • M A

        They remind me of the fundamentalist Protestants I used to know who would lecture me on what the (my) Catholic Church teaches.

        Can you say "projection"?

  • Don Bates

    AA a religion? I'll drink to that. Cheers.

  • Pingback: The EstAAblishment Clause – Stinkin' Thinkin'()

  • I.N. Gratitude

    >>> AA is many things to many people…. one absolute gaurentee is… it will never be perfect……. Nobody is forced to take up the AA 12 steps…. people can come and leave when ever they choose…………. That said… it is no coincidence that of those who do choose to stay and adopt the 12 steps appear to stay sober and drug free………  I was discharged as a medically incurable heroin addict at 21 years old…. yet in another months time I hope to achieve 29 years abstinance / sobriety…… apart from still blessed with drawing breath, I live a fantastic life today………… If AA & 12steps can be construed as religious or you have a personal dislike of it….. then I am sorry AA was or is a bad experience for you………. Regardless of how others percieve AA…… all I know is it saves my ass and many of my dear fellowship friends……

  • Ben Franklin

    Nobody is forced to take up the AA 12 steps…. people can come and leave when ever they choose…………. Oh really, someone tell the probation officers that they can't send peeps to AA anymore. AA won't sign papers because they want only people who want it. Attraction rather than promotion. Don't want to violate peoples rights anymore. Don't want no more coercion. Yesiree

  • Ez

    "a medically incurable heroin addict "

    Whaaaaaaaaaa? I am attempting to find an actual citation for such a 'diagnosis' and you know what, I can't. Imagine that…

  • a medically…………  incurable……..  heroin………  addict

  • Susan

    punctuation abuse!

  • JenX

    Wow!

    I.N. Gratitude I would love to hear about your diagnonsense. 

    Seriously, did you think that you could just make something up and that we would all accept it as a fact like your AA buddy's do?  I hate to break it to you, but that is not the case here.  There is no such thing as a "medically incurable heroin addict". 

    What a maroon!

  • Ian (Boroboy)

    As a recovering alcoholic I have attended many meetings and tried many forms of "assistance". I had a relapse this week and found myself staring at the bottom of many a glass. As penance I decided to return to AA and chose a meeting that I had not attended before. Not suprisingly it was the same self righteous crap.

    Arriving slightly late I was left as an outcast, having to sit "outside the circle". Listening to the main speaker I became more and more frustrated at the self pity and arrogance of the individual. "My partner can leave for all I care", any alcoholic knows that yes you do stop drinking for yourself but the catalyst is someone you love. If you loved yourself you would never have got into the sad situation in the first place. The guys comments were disrespectful and insulting towards a person who has seen him through the hell of drinking and recovery.

    As a result I walked out and was acosted by two men; they quizzed me and were trying to "convert" me to the AA religion. I was quite open in telling them that AA may benefit some but it fails far more. Thankfully there is a new group starting near to me who overtly denounce AA and welcome honest straight talking with out the need for "a greater power".

    Anyone who has endured a Mormon or Jehovahs Witness can see the similarities with AA. The sickly kindness that is so false and shallow. Ironicly I believe AA serves a purpose but believe it could offer so much more and weeded out those members who use it as a social networking group. To have to listen to someone tell of his failings through drinking and then discover all he drank was two pints is a joke. The man does not have a drink problem, he has a personality issue.

    Good luck to all those out there with a problem, you can get through it.

  • k

    To be fair to jehovas witness and mormon I have met they never tried converting me.

    From  having experienced the moonies, they are very like AA. They once stopped me in the street and said do you believe in world peace, if you do come to a meeting today.

    There they love bombed me with instant friendship and tried to make me believe that nobody understands you like we do. It was highly entertaining at that stage I wasn't vulnerable and found the experience very interesting.

     

     

  • TrapperB

    The judge was wrong, IMHO. And I have no doubt that the murderer who shared his story was the talk of more than a couple of people at that meeting. The ideal of anonimity is seldom if ever a reality. AAs are forewarned NOT to bear their souls and their sins at meetings for that very reason, at least at my meeting. Always assume that what you say there WILL be repeated outside the room. Not everyone is big on integrity.

    I believe there is a huge emphasis on spirituality and none on any organized religion. A lot of AAs had a lifetime of religion and look where it got them!

    As for removing the higher power from AA, I can’t see it happening because its presence has been the foundation of success for so many members, by their own testimony.

    And in my experience, as recipient and giver, the kindness and care for the struggling alcoholic is sincere, not false and shallow.

    I hope there is a way for all active alcoholics to find the path to their own recovery, with or without acknowledging a higher power or the assistance of others in recovery. This is an insidious disease that even shows its nasty hooks in our attempts to find wellness.

    Serenity, courage and wisdom to all.

  • chris

    yes, trapper. lets see how long you keep that attitude here. AA is a mind controlling cult, that has done major damage to myself and others. thats been MY EXPERIENCE.

  • Poofter! AKA True Believer

    True believers blindly self promote the enterprise with unwavering dedication as they believe their spot in heaven is secured by carrying the message.

  • hulahoop

    TrapperB says The judge was wrong, IMHO. And I have no doubt that the murderer who shared his story was the talk of more than a couple of people at that meeting. The ideal of anonimity is seldom if ever a reality. AAs are forewarned NOT to bear their souls and their sins at meetings for that very reason, at least at my meeting. Always assume that what you say there WILL be repeated outside the room. Not everyone is big on integrity.

    I believe there is a huge emphasis on spirituality and none on any organized religion. A lot of AAs had a lifetime of religion and look where it got them!

    As for removing the higher power from AA, I can’t see it happening because its presence has been the foundation of success for so many members, by their own testimony.

    And in my experience, as recipient and giver, the kindness and care for the struggling alcoholic is sincere, not false and shallow.

    I hope there is a way for all active alcoholics to find the path to their own recovery, with or without acknowledging a higher power or the assistance of others in recovery. This is an insidious disease that even shows its nasty hooks in our attempts to find wellness.

    Serenity, courage and wisdom to all.

    Hi Trapper. I have a few questions about your post. What is the difference between religion and spirituality? I have found nobody who can answer that question.

    Do you have a higher power? Will you describe it if you do? How do you pray and meditate to it or perform its will?

    How come AA members seem to be more interested in helping other alcoholics (other AA members) or recruiting them in to AA than they are in helping “normies” who are down and out?

    May the force be with you!

  • chris

    i havent been on this site long, but one thing that is abundantly clear. every stepper says THE EXACT SAME THING. its very disturbing. 1 of the memories of the cult like quotations i heard at a meeting once was by this young woman, who had a glaze in her eyes and a smile as she said, ” I wish the whole world had a program.” seems even more weird now since im DE-programming. i never bought the program, but, i did internalize all the negative shit.

  • AnnaZed

    …. AAs are forewarned NOT to bear [sic] their souls and their sins at meetings ….

    Bawaahhaahaahaha … seriously, don’t make me laugh.

  • Border Collie Mix

    It is a religion when you get nothing but 1930’s dialect and Big Book words and slogans strung together in every sentence. That’s always been weird to me and I’ve worked hard to avoid as much of it as possible. I’ve been to meetings, in my own city, where I almost didn’t know what language was being spoken everyone was so careful to use only BB-speak.

  • There is a difference between religion and spirituality. AA is a program that works for alcoholics who WANT to sober up. If You prefer to do an ego dance and look for places to projrct Your insecurities, well God Bless! Free will IS! I made a decision to stop drinking and with the help of AA it has been a continuous decision for 18 years. So…How is knocking AA working out for You? Giving You a better life? So people do choose to be drunks…free will.
    Couldn’t handle the rigorous honesty perhaps….

  • Sally

    Move along keith. Leave the honesty to people that have the courage to speak it.

  • Thanks for setting us straight, keith. I guess we can shut this thing down and go home now.

    Let’s pack it in folks.

  • Ben Franklin

    “How is knocking AA working out for You? Giving You a better life? So people do choose to be drunks…free will.”

    It is working out quite well thank you. I do have a better life and it keeps getting better. When I get out of school I should be pulling down six figures. That is just the financial aspect, but thanks for your concern. Drive thru.

  • Come on guys, its a long 3 day weekend. Can’t we just call it the Bill Wilson Church of Spirituality and call a break for a while. Were getting the congregation of Bill Wilson all riled up. The circle and triangle symbol doesn’t even look like a pentagram and they don’t usually attribute special powers to it. It doesn’t have 5 sides like a pentagram, it has 3 side like a triad to symbolize the three corporation protecting the flock. You know the General Service Organization (AAGSO) protecting the Intergroups, the World Services (AAWS) protecting the Spiritual not Religious spread of the malady, and the grapevine publishing arm to tell about the rigorously honest awakenings they experience praying to Spiritual not religious objects like door knobs.

  • Rick

    “Couldn’t handle the rigorous honesty perhaps….”

    Yeah Keith, that demand for rigorous honesty was just too much.

  • Sally

    Wait a second. What is a continuous decision anyway?